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600yd scope advice please

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/22/2011 at 12:00
SteveA View Drop Down
Optics GrassHopper
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Hi guys,
I'm after a scope for my specific application - any input greatly received.

Primary use will be for Civilian Service Rifle (CSR). These are courses of fire modified from UK military training.
1/ Its shot from 25 to 500yds (mostly 100yds+), all known distances
2/ Positions include standing, kneeling, sitting and prone
3/ Targets are 'figure type' with relatively large aiming/scoring zones (2MOA+)
4/ Rundowns are included - example 'shoot 4 rounds at 500yds prone, run to 400yds shoot 4 rounds sitting, run to 300yds shoot 2 rounds kneeling'
5/ Max magnification is 4.5x - higher power variables can be used if they are turned down

About me.
1/ Rifle is a 223 AR
2/ Budget is $1000
3/ Externally adjustable turrets are required
4/ 30mm tube is preferred - I've got a LaRue mount

The scope used by the top guys is the NF 2.5-10x32, but at $2400 (UK price) its just too expensive for me.
I'm looking at the Leupold MR/T 2.5-8x36, but I've used other Leupolds in the past & I didnt like their critical (and changing) eye relief.
Any suggestions will be greatly received, but please do not recommend any SS scope as SWFA=no export Really Sad


thanks
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/22/2011 at 12:11
FireEMT5 View Drop Down
Optics Journeyman
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The Vortex viper PST 2.5x10x44 or PST 1x4 is under you budget.  Not sure about exporting Vortex though.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/22/2011 at 12:15
Urimaginaryfrnd View Drop Down
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The correct optic would be a 4x ACOG  but it does not have adjustable turrets scopes used at 4x usually dont except variables.
Trijicon 4x32 Acog Rifle Scope .223 Red Chevron Trijicon 4x32 Acog Rifle Scope
Stock # - TA31F
  • .223 Red Chevron
  • Free Lens Cleaning Pen w/ Purchase
  • Free Neoprene Scope Coat w/ Purchase
  • Free Flat Top Adapter w/ Purchase
$1,217.95 


Edited by Urimaginaryfrnd - June/22/2011 at 12:16
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/22/2011 at 12:18
Urimaginaryfrnd View Drop Down
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If you have to have adjustable turrets and you can get Leupolds why not one of the Mk 4 scopes.
Leupold 3.5-10x40 Mark 4 LR/T 30mm Riflescope TMR Leupold 3.5-10x40 Mark 4 LR/T 30mm Riflescope
Stock # - LEU60020
  • Matte
  • Tactical Milling Reticle
  • Side Focus
  • M1 Target Knobs
  • Free Leupold Flip-Open Lens Covers
$1,099.95 


Edited by Urimaginaryfrnd - June/22/2011 at 12:18
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/22/2011 at 12:19
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Leupold 4.5-14x40 Mark 4 LR/T 30mm Riflescope Duplex Leupold 4.5-14x40 Mark 4 LR/T 30mm Riflescope
Stock # - LEU56140
  • Matte
  • Duplex
  • 30mm
  • Long Range
  • Side Focus
  • Target Knobs
$754.95 


Edited by Urimaginaryfrnd - June/22/2011 at 12:19
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/22/2011 at 12:22
koshkin View Drop Down
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Dark Lord of Optics

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It is difficult to make a proper recommendation since I am not sure what the prices on your side of the pond are.

Off hand, I would think that the new Weaver Tactical 1-5x24 would make a good fit.

Burris XTR 1-4x24 and 1.5-6x40 may be worth a look as well.

ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/22/2011 at 12:23
Urimaginaryfrnd View Drop Down
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You should also be able to get IOR  Valdada which is better glass.
IOR 2.5-10x42 Tactical 30mm Rifle Scope Illuminated MP-8 Dot IOR 2.5-10x42 Tactical 30mm Rifle Scope
Stock # - 254210
  • Matte
  • Illuminated MP-8 Dot
  • 30mm
$979.95 


Edited by Urimaginaryfrnd - June/22/2011 at 12:23
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/22/2011 at 12:26
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IOR 4x24 Tactical 30mm Rifle Scope Illuminated CQB IOR 4x24 Tactical 30mm Rifle Scope
Stock # - 402422
  • Black
  • Illuminated CQB
  • 30mm
  • M2 Target Knobs
  • .223
$524.95


Edited by Urimaginaryfrnd - June/22/2011 at 12:26
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/22/2011 at 12:31
Urimaginaryfrnd View Drop Down
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Critical eye relief seems to be more of a problem on compact scopes than of full size models see if you cant look at one of the Mk4 scopes. Shame that they dont limit you to 6x because the Leup 6x42 Competition target would be a fine choice.  You can custom order from Leupold a FX II fixed 4x with Tactical Knobs and a balistic engraved reticle from the Leupold Custom Shop.
Leupold 4x33 FX-II Riflescope Duplex Leupold 4x33 FX-II Riflescope
Stock # - LEU58530
  • Gloss
  • Duplex
  • 1"
  • Multi-Coat 4 Lens System
$299.95 


Edited by Urimaginaryfrnd - June/22/2011 at 12:31
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/22/2011 at 12:59
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Optics Master Extraordinaire
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Shame the NF is so expensive over there (and I thought it was high enough here). I'd be leery of the Leupy FX-II's tracking. I have one (relegated to a .22) and adjusting either elevation or windage even at the bench, let alone in the heat of the moment, has usually resulted in a shift in POI. In other words, I'd be zeroing it on my .308 and would change the elevation up 1/2 MOA only to find that my shots were all landing 1/4-1/2 MOA to the right. Or I would be off by 1/2 MOA to the right, and would shift two clicks to the left and end up 1/4-1/2 MOA extra to the left.

I'd look into the Weaver that ILya recommended. It seems a good fit for that rifle and application.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/22/2011 at 14:13
stickbow46 View Drop Down
Optics Master Extraordinaire
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Another might fit is the Bushnell Tactical 4-16x 42 @ $799.99 & their giving away a free rain suit!Has pretty good turrets MD retical & rainguard + it comes with a free sunshade.
 
Forgot to mention,Welcome to the OT,mate Wink


Edited by stickbow46 - June/22/2011 at 14:15
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/23/2011 at 03:51
SteveA View Drop Down
Optics GrassHopper
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thanks for all the fedback guys - much appreciated.

Mr. EMT5 - Vortex PSTs are advertised here, and it does seem to have a good spec. I was thinking about the 2.5-10, but I see that Mr. Koshkin didn't rate them highly.

Mr. Imaginary - ACOGs are not what I'm after, I'm afraid. ACOGs were used in the past, but people are now dialling their corrections rather than aim off with the reticule. Scores have increased accordingly & I want to take advantage of that. 

Mr. Koshkin - my budget is $1000 US retail price. I've calculated what that will end up costing me after shipping & taxes (approx $1350). Does the Weaver Tactical have readily diallable turrets, it looks like it uses a BDC reticule?

Mr. Jono - thanks for the warning on the FX-II

Mr. Stickbow - Bushnell Tactical is now added to the interest list.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/23/2011 at 09:36
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Optics Apprentice
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Seems like from what I have read the SWFA SS 3-9x42 would be a good choice. And well within your price range.

There's one on the sample list for 500 bucks.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/23/2011 at 11:37
SteveA View Drop Down
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If I could get an SWFA scope it would be 'job done'.
SWFA doesn't export unfortunately.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/23/2011 at 12:05
koshkin View Drop Down
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Originally posted by SteveA SteveA wrote:

thanks for all the fedback guys - much appreciated.

Mr. EMT5 - Vortex PSTs are advertised here, and it does seem to have a good spec. I was thinking about the 2.5-10, but I see that Mr. Koshkin didn't rate them highly.

Mr. Imaginary - ACOGs are not what I'm after, I'm afraid. ACOGs were used in the past, but people are now dialling their corrections rather than aim off with the reticule. Scores have increased accordingly & I want to take advantage of that. 

Mr. Koshkin - my budget is $1000 US retail price. I've calculated what that will end up costing me after shipping & taxes (approx $1350). Does the Weaver Tactical have readily diallable turrets, it looks like it uses a BDC reticule?

Mr. Jono - thanks for the warning on the FX-II

Mr. Stickbow - Bushnell Tactical is now added to the interest list.


Weaver tactical does have finger adjustable turrets under the caps.  It also has a reticle well suited for the 5.56.

Now that I think about it, here is another option for you:

I like this scope more than IOR's 4x24.

If you would rather have something that dials down to 4.5x, but offers you higher magnificaiton at other times, this is a nice scope, especially with the updated knobs Sightron has:

If you are looking for a zero stop, it is hard to find in your price range.  Only the inexpensive Leatherwood 1-4x24 CMR comes to mind.

ILya

ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/24/2011 at 13:03
lumberjack149 View Drop Down
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Originally posted by koshkin koshkin wrote:

 It also has a reticle well suited for the 5.56. ILya

This is debatable, unless my math is wrong this reticle is a big FAIL if it was meant for an AR platform.

Correct me if im wrong or delete my post... this reticle is meant to be a range finding bullet drop compensator reticle (kinda like most ACOG’s). From their own spec sheet the yardage marks B,C, and D are meant to range a mans shoulders (20” wide). This puts these drops at 370yd, 463yd, and 556yd yards respectively.

To be able to match the drops between these yardage/holdover marks it takes a varmint bullet (they missed their intended market there). From their own spec sheet, the bullet that is the closest to their holdovers is P223R (not sure what that is?) and is moving at 2,977fps out of a 14.5” barrel with a G1 BC of 0.151. If you use a more common AR round like the M855 it shows the marks B,C, and D being on at 460yd, 610yd, and 760yards which puts the holdovers nowhere near their range finding distance of 370yd/463yd/556yd.

Im not sure who designed this reticle for Weaver but they might want to rethink their specs on this reticle.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/24/2011 at 18:45
koshkin View Drop Down
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Dark Lord of Optics

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Originally posted by lumberjack149 lumberjack149 wrote:

Originally posted by koshkin koshkin wrote:

 It also has a reticle well suited for the 5.56. ILya

This is debatable, unless my math is wrong this reticle is a big FAIL if it was meant for an AR platform.

Correct me if im wrong or delete my post... this reticle is meant to be a range finding bullet drop compensator reticle (kinda like most ACOG’s). From their own spec sheet the yardage marks B,C, and D are meant to range a mans shoulders (20” wide). This puts these drops at 370yd, 463yd, and 556yd yards respectively.

To be able to match the drops between these yardage/holdover marks it takes a varmint bullet (they missed their intended market there). From their own spec sheet, the bullet that is the closest to their holdovers is P223R (not sure what that is?) and is moving at 2,977fps out of a 14.5” barrel with a G1 BC of 0.151. If you use a more common AR round like the M855 it shows the marks B,C, and D being on at 460yd, 610yd, and 760yards which puts the holdovers nowhere near their range finding distance of 370yd/463yd/556yd.

Im not sure who designed this reticle for Weaver but they might want to rethink their specs on this reticle.


With 77gr SMKs, the holdover marks are just about dead on for 300yards, 450 yards, 600 yards and 750 yards, assuming a 200yard zero.  That is pretty much the bullet I standardized on these days.

Why they chose the horizontal hashmarks to be 1.5mrad, 1.2mrad and 1mrad is not exactly clear to me, but they do provide a sort of a crude rangefinder.

ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/24/2011 at 20:20
Urimaginaryfrnd View Drop Down
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Leupold 1.25-4x20 VX-R Patrol Tactical 30mm Riflescope Leupold 1.25-4x20 VX-R Patrol Tactical 30mm Riflescope
Stock # - LEU113769
  • Matte
  • FireDot SPR
  • 30mm
  • 1-Button Illumination
  • Motion Sensor
  • Index Matched Lens Coatings
  • Lead-Free Edge-Blackened Lenses
$579.95  " 


Edited by Urimaginaryfrnd - June/24/2011 at 20:20
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