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MikieG View Drop Down
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    Posted: December/02/2019 at 10:35
Couple years ago I bought a couple of these on a Black Friday. I'm finally getting around to using them. 
One is on my FN SPR and the other on my LWRCI REPR. 
I have noticed on my FN, that during dry firing, upon pulling the trigger, the reticle seems to jump. At 100 yards, it seems like it is at least a quarter of an inch. 
Rebolt, squeeze, click, reticle jumps over there. Repeat, same effect.
I am getting ready to swap scopes between the two rifles to see if this is a scope issue or rifle issue.
SPR's McMillan A3 stock is aluminum pillar bedded as well as marine tex glass bedded. The bolts are loctited to 65 inch pounds.
Scope mount is factory but GA precision probably removed/installed if for barrel fluting. Either way, I'm sure it is correct. My Badger rings are torqued and loctited to 65 inch pounds. The ring caps are torqued and loctited 15 inch pounds.
I have several models from the SS line with multiple copies within each model. Chris's stuff has NEVER had any issues and I've been using SS since 1997. I am just not accepting the fact that this flagship model could have a problem.
What are your thoughts?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bigdaddy0381 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/02/2019 at 11:27
Run some rounds thru it and report back. I had one do the same thing on a rem action 300win mag but it also shot tiny groups and never lost zero. Must have been an optical illusion.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote koshkin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/03/2019 at 00:28
In principle, anything can have a problem.  On the other hand, I am having a hard time figuring out how a scope problem would manifest itself during dry firing.

Double check the mounts and go shooting.

ILya
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MikieG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/03/2019 at 01:09
it seems to me there might be a problem in the assembly that holds the reticle lenses. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote koshkin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/03/2019 at 01:23
Originally posted by MikieG MikieG wrote:

it seems to me there might be a problem in the assembly that holds the reticle lenses. 


That is possible, but dry practice  would not be likely to show it.
ILya
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bigdaddy0381 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/03/2019 at 10:52
Just saying!!


Originally posted by Bigdaddy0381 Bigdaddy0381 wrote:

Run some rounds thru it and report back. I had one do the same thing on a rem action 300win mag but it also shot tiny groups and never lost zero. Must have been an optical illusion.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RifleDude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/03/2019 at 11:27
Yeah, it’s impossible to truly evaluate a scope’s ability to maintain POI and track without actually firing rounds down range. In the event the scope is truly defective, SWFA will promptly replace it no problem.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rancid Coolaid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/03/2019 at 11:46
Originally posted by RifleDude RifleDude wrote:

Yeah, it’s impossible to truly evaluate a scope’s ability to maintain POI and track without actually firing rounds down range.


I mostly agree with that. I did have an issue many years ago with a borrowed rifle topped with a Tasco Silver Antler scope. When I completely missed on a deer at less than 100 yards, I took rifle-scope to the range to test fire and watched the point of aim move a few feet as the power ring was adjusted. Not inches, feet!
It seems I zeroed previously at 9X but took the shot at 3X. Live and learn, live and learn.

Then again, it was a Tasco Silver Antler, so...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MikieG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/05/2019 at 00:36
I disagree. If you are steady in your setup, and squeeze the trigger well, the idea and result should be that the reticle should not move. At all. This is the goal of dry fireing.
But if you are seeing the reticle jump when the striker is released, there are problems. 
Now imagine this happening round to round. The zero bouncing a 1/4moa here and there every shot. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RifleDude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/05/2019 at 05:20
But you will never be able to quantify the error and verify that what you think you see is really occurring and not an illusion until you run the scope in the very task it was designed for. That is the definitive proof. Likewise, you never established that the mounts aren’t the culprit, as you stated in your OP. If the error you noted was so great that it is obvious without doubt, then you wouldn’t have used the word “seems” twice in the OP, and wouldn’t have suggested that you would move it to another rifle and mount setup to try to isolate the problem. There is no downside to firing rounds down range to verify and in fact is part of the process of troubleshooting.

At any rate, there is no such thing as a zero flaw history product line, which is why warranties and customer service departments exist. If it is indeed defective, it will be replaced no problem. 
Ted


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rancid Coolaid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/05/2019 at 06:14
If it doesn't track or hold zero, they will fix or replace it. If it does both of those well - as they most often do - this will all have been an exercise in why you don't return a thing for it doing or not doing a thing that didn't matter.

This is all kinda like saying, "the steering in my car feels funny, when it is idling in my garage."
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MikieG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/05/2019 at 11:01
Where did I ever say that I have not shot this rig? This is an assumption on your behalf. 
Scope can zero right up. Track fine. Yet an MOA rifle/ammo rig is shooting 1.25moa when you know it shoots .75 and everyone that looks at this sees the same reticle movement sees the same thing. 
Anyway, I was only wondering if anyone has ever seen this in their optic of any brand.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RifleDude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/05/2019 at 11:36
Originally posted by MikieG MikieG wrote:

Where did I ever say that I have not shot this rig? This is an assumption on your behalf. 

In your original post you stated that the reticle movement was noticed during dry fire, the discussion proceeded with that premise, and you likewise commented on replies to that premise. No assumptions were made beyond what you told us.
Ted


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MikieG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/05/2019 at 11:49
I think what has happened here is you thought someone was bashing the product. 
No need to get in a tissy.
I will do everything I can long before I ever approach Chris.
And just because I didn't address your assumptions right out of the gate does not justify your argument. It just shows patience on my behalf. 
This ain't my 1st comedy show. No need for friction. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote supertool73 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/05/2019 at 11:58
Based upon your comments it also seemed to me you had yet to shoot it.  The comment bought them a couple years ago and finally got around to using them and noticed during dry firing, yada yada. 

If you have shot it, then were there issues with rounds on paper?  Have you done a box test yet?  As has been said, there is no point discussing this until those things have been done.  To many variable yet. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MikieG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/05/2019 at 12:05
ok. You had last word. Let's move on now.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote supertool73 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/05/2019 at 12:08
ha, that was actually my first comment.  Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rancid Coolaid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/05/2019 at 12:10
I think everyone is trying to diagnose an issue with limited information. And Mike, you'd have to agree, you just provided new information not previously disclosed.

If it tracks true and holds zero through firing and dope changes, it seems odd that something inside is visibly moving but it still does those 2 things accurately and precisely. I guess it is possible, but seems to me improbable.

Run a box test, shake the rifle around a bit, let us know what the target looks like; that'll help.

Keep in mind, we are posting here in an effort to help figure out the issue. We simply are not yet convinced it is the scope. Additional information helps fill in the gaps, but there still is no clear picture.

It seems a real pain in the ass to dismount, rebox, ship it back, get a new one, remount, rezero, then retest - only to find that is was never the scope all along.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bigdaddy0381 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/05/2019 at 12:24
Originally posted by MikieG MikieG wrote:

I think what has happened here is you thought someone was bashing the product. 
No need to get in a tissy.
I will do everything I can long before I ever approach Chris.
And just because I didn't address your assumptions right out of the gate does not justify your argument. It just shows patience on my behalf. 
This ain't my 1st comedy show. No need for friction. 
.

No, It's not that we think your bashing anything. Straight up Honesty I have had one maybe two over the last few years go South. I called SWFA 'skylar' at the time and kaboom... Fixed problem.  

 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RifleDude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/05/2019 at 12:27
Hey, Mikie, YOU are making all the assumptions here. There was no end game to “defend the product” on our parts. We were merely responding to the statements you made. You said clearly that you noticed a reticle shift during dry firing. Then you used the word “seems” twice, which is a word universally understood to mean you hadn’t yet verified. All your words, not ours. 

Then when folks suggested you fire some rounds down range to verify, you made no clarifying remarks that you’d already done so, even after 4 separate people were obviously under the impression you’d not yet fired the rifle with this scope mounted, based on the info you provided. If you’d already shot groups and were basing your conclusion on same, then why didn’t you say so, rather than tell us it “seems” you might have a problem based on observations from dry firing? You requested input, and we all tried to provide good advice in good faith based on the info you gave us. We cannot read your mind, and cannot take things into account that you never said.
Ted


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MikieG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/05/2019 at 13:28
I'm not going to take the time to read this. As I said, you had the last word. Let's move on. Further paragraphs are only viewed as conflict.
I am sure SWFA will fix anything wrong. I just wanted to see if anyone ever saw this before.
So again. Were done here. Thanks for your input.
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