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.458 Lott problem solved...

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    Posted: February/14/2021 at 15:44
kind of.  SAAMI spec for case length is 2.80in.  I had a Remington Custom .458 WinMag rechambered to .458 Lott.  Would not load handloads "built" to SAAMI specs.  Had the gunsmith who did the rechamber, at my expense, perform a full measure and analysis of the chamber... bottom line is, he said "it's all to spec".  I have tried numerous loads based upon every reloading manual that has a .458 Lott load... none would chamber.  I finally found some notes from Jack Lott talking about his design, development and testing of the .458 Lott rifle.  I also purchased a large amount of .458 "factory loaded" ammo and checked dimensions.  Yesterday, I cut a resized case to 2.775in (once fired Hornady factory load DGS, 500gr, rated a 2300fps), loaded a Badlands Precision 475gr bullet at 3.78 COAL (just to start) and it chambers superbly... it also fits my magazine, so I can use that length if it is a good one for accuracy.  
So... all the loading books have loads with a case length of 2.8 as a "norm", SAAMI spec is 2.8.  However, I cannot get a cartridge to chamber at greater than 2.785 and cannot chamber with a bullet loaded at greater than case length of 2.775... doesn't that say the gunsmith who rechambered my rifle is FOS???
Fortunately, the Badlands bullets have plenty of length, so I should be able to create the load I want... what I really want is a MV of something in the neighborhood of 2450fps MV.  2500fps would be better.  I think the Badlands bullet can help me get there.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dogger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/14/2021 at 15:57
So the smith sized your chamber and said it meets 2.80in specs which it clearly doesn’t. Sounds like he should be fixing his error but appears unwilling to do so. Have you spoken with him since you cut the cases?



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kickboxer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/14/2021 at 18:59
Originally posted by Dogger Dogger wrote:

So the smith sized your chamber and said it meets 2.80in specs which it clearly doesn’t. Sounds like he should be fixing his error but appears unwilling to do so. Have you spoken with him since you cut the cases?




I have not contacted him since I successfully seated a bullet and chambered the round in my rifle.  He will get an earful tomorrow.   I'm just thankful for the Bulldozer bullets.  Now that I have a SMALLER THAN SPEC case length that will work, due to the ballistic coefficient and length of the Bulldozer, I can find an optimum that will give me great performance.  I am not certain, but am very hopeful that 2500fps MV is possible... certainly 2450.  
Cape Buffalo, here I come...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dogger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/14/2021 at 19:30
Best of luck and buffs beware!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Urimaginaryfrnd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/14/2021 at 20:25
My GAP 300WM seems to only like virgin brass. The  belt does not re-size in a size die.  Its always something.  Right now I have a Bergara 10-22 that failed to fire primers light strike on 3 out of 30 its at the factory.  Wonder if I should  have sent instructions for reading a micrometer so they can measure the firing pin.  The only things I ever feel confident that they will work when I walk out the door are glock and tikka. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kickboxer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/15/2021 at 13:28
Originally posted by Urimaginaryfrnd Urimaginaryfrnd wrote:

My GAP 300WM seems to only like virgin brass. The  belt does not re-size in a size die.  Its always something.  Right now I have a Bergara 10-22 that failed to fire primers light strike on 3 out of 30 its at the factory.  Wonder if I should  have sent instructions for reading a micrometer so they can measure the firing pin.  The only things I ever feel confident that they will work when I walk out the door are glock and tikka. 
Wes, I don't think a belt can be resized.  Have you tried the Innovative Technologies Collet resizing die?  It will resize the case all the way up to the belt...which a "normal"resizing die often fails to do.
From Larry Willis, who created it:
Our resizing die uses a collet that fits over the cartridge case, until it bottoms against the belt. The case is then pressed into the sizing die. The collet allows your case to go farther into the die where it only reduces the area "just above" the belt.

I've had good success with .300H&H, .375H&H and .300WM.  He claims it will dramatically increase the number of reloads you get out of cases... I've had no opportunity to test that theory.  Almost all of what I've been shooting lately is "throwaway" stuff.  I'm about to get into loading all the brass I have on hand, though.  More than I thought...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mike650 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/15/2021 at 14:19
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kickboxer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/20/2021 at 20:28
I have loaded some "dummy rounds" to test my theories on issues purported as "resolved" and "within spec" by my "gunsmith".  Today, I loaded 73.4 grains of Hodgdon 4895 in a .458 Lott Hornady case cut to 2.777 in and seated a Badlands Precision 475 grain bullet (Bulldozer) at .702 BC with a COAL of 3.699 in (SAAMI is 3.6).  I have a test "dummy"(no powder) loaded at 3.775 and it chambers perfectly and will load from the "internal" magazine.  
I've not loaded ammo, much, since the early '80s.  However, I still remember some things about hand loading and have done a TON of research... which I always do.  Bottom line is... I listened to internet BS from people who don't know anything about guns and chose a BAD gunsmith.  
Tomorrow, I'm going to pull the trigger on the one round I have loaded and expect to move out on reaching my goal of a Badlands Precision Bulldozer .475 grain moving at 2450 fps, possibly 2500, in the very near future.  
Qapla' batlh je...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Urimaginaryfrnd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/20/2021 at 23:40
Bet you could load it to 45-70  spec running a .458 cast bullet over 70 grains of black powder. Devil

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Scrumbag Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/21/2021 at 03:17
Trail boss or Unique might also be your friend for a plinking load.

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Was sure I had a point when I started this post...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kickboxer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/23/2021 at 12:10
I did not shoot the one round I had loaded up until today... just a few minutes ago.  I've been celebrating since... but I'll get to that.  
We've had quite a bit of rain and yesterday the ground was like walking on Spongebob, so I waited.
I spent some time, after Scrummy's post, researching other powders.  Quite a bit of time actually, running through different loads that might get me near my long term goal of 2450fps.  I've found a few, but nothing I can load up in the short term... no powder of those brands available.
So, I set up on my shooting bench with my Lead Sled at 100 yards.   Adjusted the Sled so the scope reticle was showing aligned perfectly dead center and loaded my one round.  I ran through all my calculations and made sure of every variable.  
Addressed the rifle, took two deep breaths and began a slow exhale, squeezed the trigger.  Could not believe my eyes... hit was exact dead center.  Velocity came in at 2321... close enough for my needs for now.  
I'm just going to load up everything I have with H4895 and the Badlands Precision .458 Bulldozers.  

I'm almost ready to hunt (when we are allowed to travel, again... however, we have now been delayed so long, my wife has demanded that we get the house paid off before the Africa trip.. looking like 2023 now based upon my outfitter's recommended hunting times).  
My Remington Custom Shop .458 WinMag rechambered to .458 Lott (mostly) is now READY.  It took a lot more than I expected... some of the exploration was fun, some was very aggravating.  I'm glad I can now load for the Lott.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dogger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/23/2021 at 12:40
Sounds very successful Dan. Too bad about the delay but Lori sounds very practical and good things come to those who wait!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kickboxer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/23/2021 at 14:51
It was better than I hoped for.
Lori IS practical...to a fault... she keeps me on the right roads.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kickboxer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/23/2021 at 15:40
I tried to shoot a 7.62x39 round through the .458 hole... as you can see, I missed.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dogger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/23/2021 at 17:16
Musta hiccuped as you squeezed the trigger....

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kickboxer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/23/2021 at 19:43
Originally posted by Dogger Dogger wrote:

Musta hiccuped as you squeezed the trigger....

something...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Scrumbag Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/24/2021 at 04:49
Are you sure you need 2450? That will be very very punchy.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bigdaddy0381 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/24/2021 at 06:38
So do all the trees at your place shivver with fear when you walk out the door with a smoke stick in hand?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kickboxer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/24/2021 at 15:13
Originally posted by Scrumbag Scrumbag wrote:

Are you sure you need 2450? That will be very very punchy.

Scrummy
NEED it?  Possibly not (though I have fired 500gr rated at 2450 by Winchester (did not have a chrono at the time so had to take their word) out of my Ruger #1).  But... I WANT it...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kickboxer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/24/2021 at 15:14
Originally posted by Bigdaddy0381 Bigdaddy0381 wrote:

So do all the trees at your place shivver with fear when you walk out the door with a smoke stick in hand?


Ha... no, they just fall over dead as I'm walking out the door...
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