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45 ACP - Slide not going into battery

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Gil P. View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gil P. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: 45 ACP - Slide not going into battery
    Posted: August/14/2014 at 08:09
Ive been reloading for the 45 ACP for a few months now and I am having an issue with the slide not going fully into battery while shooting out of my 1911. It happens about 10 percent of the time and when it happens I push the slide forward, the round goes into the chamber and then I can fire it.

My reloading process: Tumble brass, decap/resize, bell case mouth, seat primer, charge powder, seat bullet, crimp to .471 with Redding taper crimp die. I do not trim any cases or measure the height of the brass. I do the plunk test with a handful of random rounds and they all seat easily just below flush.

I dont have any issues with factory ammunition. I have tried experimenting a bit with the amount of crimp im using. Could I be experiencing this issue because I dont trim my cases? I might try and use a lot more crimp; I will check and see if maybe im slowing the slide down with my left thumb. I shoot thumbs forward and im right handed.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bigdaddy0381 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/14/2014 at 08:52
Originally posted by Gil P. Gil P. wrote:

Ive been reloading for the 45 ACP for a few months now and I am having an issue with the slide not going fully into battery while shooting out of my 1911. It happens about 10 percent of the time and when it happens I push the slide forward, the round goes into the chamber and then I can fire it.

My reloading process: Tumble brass, decap/resize, bell case mouth, seat primer, charge powder, seat bullet, crimp to .471 with Redding taper crimp die. I do not trim any cases or measure the height of the brass. I do the plunk test with a handful of random rounds and they all seat easily just below flush.

I dont have any issues with factory ammunition. I have tried experimenting a bit with the amount of crimp im using. Could I be experiencing this issue because I dont trim my cases? I might try and use a lot more crimp; I will check and see if maybe im slowing the slide down with my left thumb. I shoot thumbs forward and im right handed.


skip this step on 10 rounds, Bullet might be a little harder to seat. See if this is a fix. I had this problem once and it was belling to much and when I crimped it would bubble the case just enough to drag when chambering. I don't bell or crimp any more and not troubles at all.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote supertool73 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/14/2014 at 09:11
I had the same issue and resolved it the same as BigDaddy did. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DCAMM94 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/14/2014 at 10:00
That would be my first check as well.  I have to be very careful with my 38 super cases for the same issue.  Plus, when you bell the case too much, the little bulge behind the crimp is just plain unsightly.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tejas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/14/2014 at 22:41
You might try a Lee Factory Crimp Die. They crimp and size the case at the same time. If you set it up right it will get rid of the bulge.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rainman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/15/2014 at 17:53
Don't overlook something as simple as a weak, worn out recoil spring.  Standard spring weight for 5" 1911 is in the 16# range or a combination of a worn spring and bulged cases.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gil P. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/15/2014 at 20:47

My cases don't have a bulge near the case mouth, not that I noticed anyway. I will try skipping the step where I bell the case mouth with some cases (and still use the Redding crimp die); on others I will skip both belling the case mouth and crimping to see what happens.

Rainman, I doubt the recoil spring is the issue because this only happens with my reloads and the Wolff spring that is in my 1911 is the 18.5 pound variety with less than 1000 rounds. I do have an extra spring I could try but I don't think that is the issue.

Hope to have some answers by this Wednesday. Thanks for the advice all.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gil P. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/24/2014 at 22:11

Some test results:

Control ammo x30 had 3 failures to go into battery.

No crimp, no bell x13 rounds had 2 failures to go into battery.

With crimp, less bell (than control) x 18 rounds had 0 failures to go into battery.

The first of the no crimp, no bell rounds did not feed when I tried to rack the first one in. Im thinking that I was belling the case mouths too much, and that crimping my cases is necessary for reliability in my pistol.

In case anyone is interested I was testing Accurate No. 7 10.0 gr and 10.5 gr, with a 230 gr bullet and CCI large pistol primers. Both were accurate but had stiff recoil and some flattened primers. I may try backing it off to 9.5 gr to see what happens.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BeltFed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/25/2014 at 10:59
Try belling your cases just enough to start the bullet in the case, and taper crimp to ensure the bell is removed. Also while this shouldn't be an issue, it wouldn't hurt to trim your cases.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rainman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/25/2014 at 11:12
What brand brass and what bullet are you using?  Are you using more than one magazine and/or what brand magazines?  Which gun and model (steel or aluminum frame)?  These things are very frustrating.  Went through something similar with a Colt L W Commander in .38 Super about a year ago.  Turns out most, if not all, modern.38 Super's for the US market have chambers cut for 9mm diameter bullets.  The slightly larger diameter .38 Super Speer 130s would not reliably go into battery, similar failure rate to what you are experiencing with your .45 hand loads.  It also happened with one brand of brass more frequently than with two others.  It could be that something is happening during the slide cycle that is causing resistance and slowing the slide down after it picks up a new round (i.e. the round starts to nose up but recovers, however, the bullet slides along the hood and top of the chamber slowing everything down).  Also try running a cotton ear swab around the chamber to check to see if there are any rough spots anywhere that hangs up and pulls cotton off the swab such as at the end of the chamber where the rifling starts.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gil P. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/25/2014 at 12:57

Originally posted by BeltFed BeltFed wrote:

Try belling your cases just enough to start the bullet in the case, and taper crimp to ensure the bell is removed. Also while this shouldn't be an issue, it wouldn't hurt to trim your cases.

I tried what you suggested about belling the cases just enough to start the bullet in the case and then taper crimping and it seems to be working. I haven't had an issue since I switched, but I haven't fired enough cases that were made that way to be sure; I'll keep on testing that.

I use all different types of brass so trimming may help. Maybe I have some really short cases that don't get the same crimp that the others do.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gil P. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/25/2014 at 13:02

Originally posted by Rainman Rainman wrote:

What brand brass and what bullet are you using?  Are you using more than one magazine and/or what brand magazines?  Which gun and model (steel or aluminum frame)?  These things are very frustrating.  Went through something similar with a Colt L W Commander in .38 Super about a year ago.  Turns out most, if not all, modern.38 Super's for the US market have chambers cut for 9mm diameter bullets.  The slightly larger diameter .38 Super Speer 130s would not reliably go into battery, similar failure rate to what you are experiencing with your .45 hand loads.  It also happened with one brand of brass more frequently than with two others.  It could be that something is happening during the slide cycle that is causing resistance and slowing the slide down after it picks up a new round (i.e. the round starts to nose up but recovers, however, the bullet slides along the hood and top of the chamber slowing everything down).  Also try running a cotton ear swab around the chamber to check to see if there are any rough spots anywhere that hangs up and pulls cotton off the swab such as at the end of the chamber where the rifling starts.

I'm using an assortment of brass.

Bullets are X-treme copper plated bullets 230 gr RN.

I am using Chip McCormick magazines and I have 3 of them.

Pistol is a Steel framed customized Springfield GI in 45 ACP.

I never thought about checking the chamber, I'll be sure to do that.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rainman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/27/2014 at 12:56
I checked Extreme's website and their bullets look like like quality components as are the gun and magazines.  Useful life of a recoil spring is usually around 5,000 rounds but if you have another 5" 1911 that is functioning reliably you might switch springs as a check point.  I change recoil springs between 18# (stock weight) and 15# in my Baer 1911 Comanche depending on bullet weight and powder charge but in a 5" gun a 16# spring should work with most loads.  It makes a big difference in the Comanche whether the slide locks open on the last round or not.  If you have access to a friendly gunsmith he might be able to check your spring weight if you don't know for sure what weight was used in the build.  If you have a heavy spring such as 18# with light loads the slide may be short cycling.  I know from experience how frustrating this is when you are using quality components and experience these kinds of problems.  It's a big time waster and it will probably turn out to be a very simple fix once the problem is identified.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gil P. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/28/2014 at 16:32

I'll changing out springs today, I have a spare Wolff 18.5 pound spring laying around. If that doesn't work I could try a 16 pound spring like you suggested. I am using some loadings that are on the hotter side though. I can really feel the difference in recoil from factory ammo vs my reloads. The thing is that my pistol functions just fine with the lower power, low recoil factory ammo... I'm going to do some more testing today and I'll switch springs to see what happens.

Thanks for your suggestions.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gil P. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/14/2014 at 23:42
I have given up on trying to make my reloads work, and I have begun to think that there may be something wrong with my pistol and not my reloads. I tried a newer heavier 18.5 pound Wolff spring, it made no difference.

I bought some factory Fiocchi ammunition to see if matching the COAL of my reloads to it would improve things. That day I shot the box of 50 factory Fiocchi rounds and about 70 of my reloads and everything worked flawlessly. I made more of my reloads exactly the same way a short time later and started experiencing the same issues again.

The last time I took my 1911 out, I noticed that it did not have a consistent ejection pattern. Some of the cases would go straight up, some would fly back at my face.

My cases are below the trim-to length of .898, my bullets measure .451 inches in diameter. I forget the COAL but they pass the "plunk" test.

I took my 1911 to the gunsmith today and explained the problems I was having. He suspected it was my reloads so I am taking some to him tomorrow.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sgt. D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/16/2014 at 19:54
I suspect you loads are under powered. I've seen this on 9mm, and 45 reloads. I didn't see where you mentioned checking the velocity of your reloads compared to factory. If under powered the slide cycles short and doesn't have the momentum to drive em home. Try to match the velocity of your factory loads and see if the problem goes away. Good Luck!!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Urimaginaryfrnd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/17/2014 at 20:37
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/171349/le-wilson-max-cartridge-gage-45-acp?cm_vc=ProductFinding
Wilson Max Cartridge Gage 45 ACP
Shop more L.E. Wilson products
L.E. Wilson has been producing high quality precision reloading tools for over 80 years. The Max Cartridge gage gives reloaders the ability to check all critical maximum SAAMI cartridge dimensions of straight wall cartridges - mouth diameter, base diameter, rim thickness and diameter, case and overall length and bullet diameter.

Technical Information
Notes:
  • If your cartridge will fit into the gage, it should fit in any firearm chambered to SAAMI specifications for this specific cartridge.
  • Not all firearm chambers or magazines are designed to SAAMI specifications.


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    Gil P. View Drop Down
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    Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gil P. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/18/2014 at 23:50
    Originally posted by Sgt. D Sgt. D wrote:

    I suspect you loads are under powered. I've seen this on 9mm, and 45 reloads. I didn't see where you mentioned checking the velocity of your reloads compared to factory. If under powered the slide cycles short and doesn't have the momentum to drive em home. Try to match the velocity of your factory loads and see if the problem goes away. Good Luck!!!


    just got it back today and the gunsmith was kind enough not to charge me.  Here is what they said: the powder I am using (Accurate No. 7) is much too slow for the 230 gr bullets im using. They said "youre only burning about 40 % of the powder." Which is probably true since I can see a lot of unburned powder all around the internals of the gun including the locking lugs and chamber. They said that the unburned powder in the chamber is what was causing my pistol to malfunction and not fully go into battery. I previously thought it was just some dirt that blew into the gun from the wind. It looks kind of like sand.

    The gunsmith mentioned something about the timing of the pistols action may be off because of the powder. The recoil is considerably heavier that standard factory ammunition though, so I think it may just be the fouling.

    They also said that my reloaded cartridges may be oversized. I have noticed a slight bulge on one side or the other of the case after the bullet is seated. My cases measure .472 - .473 a couple thousands away from the case mouth - what do yours measure? - Im inserting the bullets into the case mouth as straight as I possibly can, but maybe my RCBS dies are causing the bullets to get misaligned during seating? I havent been very impressed with the RCBS dies, they came with noticeable damage to the threads (or maybe im just being a drama queen). I also crimp with a Redding crimp die to .469 - .470

    Luckily, the gunsmith said there was absolutely nothing wrong with my pistol. Do you or anyone else notice a bulge behind the case mouth after seating your bullets?
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    Gil P. View Drop Down
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    Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gil P. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/18/2014 at 23:52
    Originally posted by Urimaginaryfrnd Urimaginaryfrnd wrote:

    http://www.midwayusa.com/product/171349/le-wilson-max-cartridge-gage-45-acp?cm_vc=ProductFinding
    Wilson Max Cartridge Gage 45 ACP
    Shop more L.E. Wilson products
    L.E. Wilson has been producing high quality precision reloading tools for over 80 years. The Max Cartridge gage gives reloaders the ability to check all critical maximum SAAMI cartridge dimensions of straight wall cartridges - mouth diameter, base diameter, rim thickness and diameter, case and overall length and bullet diameter.

    Technical Information
    Notes:
  • If your cartridge will fit into the gage, it should fit in any firearm chambered to SAAMI specifications for this specific cartridge.
  • Not all firearm chambers or magazines are designed to SAAMI specifications.



  • Thanks, ill be sure to get one of these. I have a similar case gauge from Wilson for my 308 I really like.
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    Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sgt. D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/19/2014 at 10:51

    Originally posted by Gil P. Gil P. wrote:

    Originally posted by Sgt. D Sgt. D wrote:

    I suspect you loads are under powered. I've seen this on 9mm, and 45 reloads. I didn't see where you mentioned checking the velocity of your reloads compared to factory. If under powered the slide cycles short and doesn't have the momentum to drive em home. Try to match the velocity of your factory loads and see if the problem goes away. Good Luck!!!


    just got it back today and the gunsmith was kind enough not to charge me.  Here is what they said: the powder I am using (Accurate No. 7) is much too slow for the 230 gr bullets im using. They said "youre only burning about 40 % of the powder." Which is probably true since I can see a lot of unburned powder all around the internals of the gun including the locking lugs and chamber. They said that the unburned powder in the chamber is what was causing my pistol to malfunction and not fully go into battery. I previously thought it was just some dirt that blew into the gun from the wind. It looks kind of like sand.

    The gunsmith mentioned something about the timing of the pistols action may be off because of the powder. The recoil is considerably heavier that standard factory ammunition though, so I think it may just be the fouling.

    They also said that my reloaded cartridges may be oversized. I have noticed a slight bulge on one side or the other of the case after the bullet is seated. My cases measure .472 - .473 a couple thousands away from the case mouth - what do yours measure? - Im inserting the bullets into the case mouth as straight as I possibly can, but maybe my RCBS dies are causing the bullets to get misaligned during seating? I havent been very impressed with the RCBS dies, they came with noticeable damage to the threads (or maybe im just being a drama queen). I also crimp with a Redding crimp die to .469 - .470

    Luckily, the gunsmith said there was absolutely nothing wrong with my pistol. Do you or anyone else notice a bulge behind the case mouth after seating your bullets?

    I've had no issues with my RCBS dies but if yours came with issues I'd be concerned about their overall quality. I don't recall any bulge issues ether. 

    He must have meant undersized if you are getting a seating bulge. Oversize would require you to crimp to keep tension on the bullet. That is how mine load. I have to crimp slightly to keep everything like I want it. I think I would try another set of dies and see if that helps. The sizing die in your set may not be set properly. I wanted to offer some load recipes but I don't remember what powder I was using. I'll have to do some digging and find it.


    Take care of Soldiers, Show em how its done and do it with em, Run to the Fight & and hold your ground! I die my men go home! If you're a NCO and this ain't you. GET OUT! GOD BLESS AMERICA!
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