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.45 acp loads?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/15/2010 at 17:27
billyburl2 View Drop Down
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What is your favorite for practice and carry/self-defence. I just bought a new Taurus 24/7 Pro with the 4.2" barrel. Never re-loaded for pistol, so any hints are welcomed.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/15/2010 at 17:30
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I would recommend factory ammo for self defense carry.  In a civil suit they could really burn you for using reloaded ammo.

For practice by all means save some money by making it yourself. I buy Berrys bullets and once shot brass in bulk.  Tightgroup is the powder I use for all my pistol loads.


Edited by supertool73 - December/15/2010 at 17:31
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/15/2010 at 17:40
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How times do you reload the brass?

Edited by billyburl2 - December/15/2010 at 17:41
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/15/2010 at 17:45
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.45 is a lower pressure round, so it can be reloaded a lot.  I have reloaded some 6 and 7 times and it still looked fine.  
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/15/2010 at 18:12
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I've been loading a single can of TZZ-85 brass for years....  For powder I use WST and if I want a hot load I've used Blue Dot in the past.  For primers, mainly WLP but most any will do.
 
HTH,
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/27/2011 at 11:19
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Supertool73 has the right idea on using factory rounds for self-defence - Federal Ammunition is a good example because it's such an accepted standard. The more things you can keep simple and standardized, the less wiggle room lawyers will have against you. The only problem is that this can get expensive. I'd suggest looking on places like Twenga so you can get the best prices without settling for sub-standard production.

http://www.twenga.com/dir-Weapons,Ammunition-40492

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/28/2011 at 02:39
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I agree with ST.  I keep my 45's loaded with federal 230gr. hydrashok for carry. Good choice on the 24/7 btw! I love mine!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/29/2011 at 09:24
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For reloads I like  horniday 230 gr ball and I use Unique within the specs of the horniday book. I have some Black  Hills and some Federal factory hollowpoints that I usually carry but have also carried Winchester Silvertip as the bullet shape is very close to that of ball ammo. Ball ammo works in all .45acp pistols reliably where some hollowpoint designs have issues unless the feed ramp is polished. I doubt you would have any issues with added civil liability due to reloaded ball ammo so long as you stay within the specs of the reloading manual.  In fact you can justify just about any round that you could possibly use within a .45acp from Glacier safety slugs to ball so long as you can articulate why you selected that and the best choice is to find out what the local cops issue or the state patrol or the FBI and then your defense is I do it the way they do it because they run extensive tests and I trust their expertise.  Ball will be the most likely to over penetrate but even ball will definately stop someone.  Your problem with any cartridge is not that you use huge amounts of power on a valid target it is that the extreme penetration carries past the valid target and causes other injury. Attorneys play word games to try make what ever you do look bad. Do the right thing and dont worry about what they are going to say later.  Bear in mind that there is nothing more irresponsible than shooting someone you did not intend to shoot so realize the path that your bullet will take and what is beyond the target and practice enough to be competent.  There are times you need to back off and refrain from shooting even with an armed bad guy in a felony crime.  The time when you can legitimately shoot a bad guy is limited solely to the very short time during which they are an imminent danger to you or someone else. You are not justified in shooting them while they are fleeing the crime scene unless they still present that imminent danger to you or to someone else.   You will never be though less of for backing down from taking a shot because it was un-safe for you to do so due to innocent bystanders in close proximity to the bad guy.  Carrying a firearm is a lifetime commitment to avoidance of conflict and de-escalation.



Edited by Urimaginaryfrnd - January/29/2011 at 09:29
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/29/2011 at 18:02
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What are the dangers of carrying your own handloads???

I have had one "squib" load if will or if you can even call it that in the last 3 years due to polishing media  it exited the barrel and hit the target 2 or 3 inches low... Probably loaded 15k plus pistol rounds in that time.

I use Nickel Cases to tell the difference in Self Defense rounds at $29 per 100 BRASS and $25 per 100 for SXT/JHP BULLETS and a few cents of powder and couple cents a primer.  To me I am more reliable than manufactured ammo or I am at least stupid enough to have more confidence in my loads.

Triple check vs. double check powder charge hand weigh each one scale weigh or trickle electronic powder, use a little under max that I chrono more than my standard few and go with a load that functions the action of each weapon I will use the ammo in to ensure no issues use a standard OAL and shoot the ones on the shelf each summer and load again.

As with ST I absolutely am in love with the BERRYs Plated  or lead but love the plated never ever ever had any issues love the .356 125gr RN Lead and 9mm 147gr PLATED love the.401 180gr lead FP and 180grs PLATED and the .452 230gr leads use the plated .451/2 225 FP and 230 RN from BERRYs and X-treme. 




Edited by 338LAPUASLAP - January/29/2011 at 18:15
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/06/2011 at 20:04
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Originally posted by tjtjwdad tjtjwdad wrote:

I've been loading a single can of TZZ-85 brass for years....

Yup. I don't even worry about keeping track of how many times it's fired. I inspect brass when it comes out of the tumbler. If the case mouth is split, I throw it out. If it isn't, I load it again.

Having said that, I carry factory 230 grain Speer Gold Dot. I once touched off one of my reloads holding a double charge of WW 231. I don't carry hand-loaded ammo.


Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/06/2011 at 21:34
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Originally posted by 338LAPUASLAP 338LAPUASLAP wrote:

What are the dangers of carrying your own handloads???




It is not about whether you can make good ammo or not.  It is about the civil suits that could be a result of using hand loaded ammo for self defense.  Its just one more thing the lawyers would use against a person. 

Same with having a highly modified gun that you use for self defense.  They would just use that against a person too.  Way to many sue happy lawyers out there.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/06/2011 at 22:08
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Along the lines of premeditated murder or similar?  Or about causing undue trauma?  I am a little lost...


Edited by 338LAPUASLAP - February/06/2011 at 22:09
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/07/2011 at 13:03
supertool73 View Drop Down
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They could try and say things like.  By using hand loaded ammo you were able to load it hotter so it is more deadly than factory ammo, which in turn they would try to say you must have intended to kill that person by using that ammo.  Or they could go after bullet choice if you chose something that was not commonly used. 

Same with your gun.  They would say things like why did you feel the need to have a hair trigger which makes it easier to accidentally pull it.  Why did you put grips on it that say "Kill them all. let God sort them out", or skulls on the grips or something. 

In a civil suit, they can go after you for anything and they will go at you from every angle trying to make you look like some person who was out looking to kill.  So the more stock your gun is and using factory ammo the better.  I personally use the same ammo that our local sheriff dept does.  That way I can just say I use what the local cops us.  I have not modified my carry gun in any way either.

These are just things I have been taught at the defensive school I attend.  They have a 3 hour lecture on civil suits and what is going to happen if you use a gun to defend yourself and shoot someone.  Not saying this is the end all, it just makes a lot of sense to me.  
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/08/2011 at 09:42
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Mostly it has to meet the need of "fear of life" etc. Whether you use an axe or not doesn't matter. Handloads fall into the catagory of when the judge asks you, "I understand why you shot the man but I don't understand why you emptied the magazine" . A good defense attorney can just as easily point out that the state doesn't have a case and is grasping at straws. But mostly it depends on what state your in, and the circumstances of the shooting. The criminal must be gone thru before a civil suit can be filed, and if your found innocent, the other party has to build some pretty good stories. Its just as easy to file a counter suit involving mental duress etc as it is for them to go after you, just depends on how deep your pockets are It also depends alot on the state, as in Texas "he needed it" is a legal defense The biggest single drawback against using handloads is one really doesn't know the seating reliability of the primers (or wad pressues). This is especially true of rifle and shotgun stuff used in self defense. The primers may become more/less sensitized from the handloading process. Getting primed factory cases is a good way to go.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/10/2011 at 22:20
Alan Robertson View Drop Down
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Dale, you make some fine points.
I've heard it said that the internet chatter about the legal ramifications of using handloads as self- defense rounds falls into the old wives tale category.
What would some slick attorney make of the fact that a person had defended their loved ones while using Wilson Combat +P+ loads?
The only way to stop a crafty lawyer is with an even craftier lawyer.

"Yes, your honor, my client did indeed empty his magazine into the vicious criminal perp's face, because my client is a well- respected and law- abiding citizen who was making his best effort to act within the law, according to legal precedent, to wit: it is well known that criminals who have been wounded and survived during the commission of their violent crimes can sue the bejabbers out of their victims for having caused the criminal to suffer pain and agony and even maiming as the victim attempted to save his own life, or the lives of others. In this regard, your honor, my client was clearly trying to remain within the confines of the law as established by rulings of the court".

Practice with what you carry. If you aren't an experienced handloader, buy the cheap stuff and practice and carry that, until you are confident of your own abilities to consistently produce reliable and effective handloads. Many stores carry inexpensive .45acp and one can find such things as  bulk Winchester white box hollowpoint ammo at reasonable prices, or the very same type of Remington ammo as carried by the FBI. The FBI doesn't use .45ACP, of course. More's the pity.

While we're at it. the Hodgdon #26 manual lists some +P .45ACP loads-
 how about a nifty little Nosler 185 gr HP uber 1150 fps ...
Yeah, baby.

Ps  Know what you need if you're walking down the beach and you find an anti- gun lawyer buried up to his neck?



More sand!
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