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4200 elite 2.5-10x50

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/07/2007 at 11:52
dwighet View Drop Down
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Could someone tell me what sort of difference i could expect in the light gathering between the 4200 elite 2.5-10x50 and the s&b 3-12x50 german variable. Apart from the huge price difference.
Im thinking of the elite and a decent pair of binos for the price of a s&b.
 
Any comment would be appreciated.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/07/2007 at 12:10
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IMO, although with virtually one of the best qualities in glass, the S&B will not be that much brighter over the Elite to warrant its extra cost margin! Affordability is no issue with me personally. But, I`m also practical at the same time..........I have an Elite 4200 3x9 and love this scope. The Elite 2.5x10 will do anything in the field the S&B will do! If I were you you, I`d get the Elite and some good quality binocs.....A Mercedes or Lexus will take you anywhere that a Bentley will............. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/07/2007 at 12:18
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The difference in the two scopes will probably be somewhere between 10-15 minutes of shooting time.  While the 4200 is good, it's not in the same ball park as a s&b or Kahles, Zeiss Victory etc.  While binos are extremely important, you have to have a clear scope to kill something in low light.  You will not see a huge difference in brightness, but you will see a difference in clarity.  Clarity is what separates the top end scopes from the rest. The 4200 is unbeatable for the price I have said that many times, but there is a reason the big dogs cost so much.  You would do fine using a 4200 and top end binos but there is a big difference between the scopes.  I upgraded my scope first since it's a must, now I am saving up for top end binos.  Look at some of the Kahles scopes on the sample list right now, you can get some pretty good deals and an awesome scope with top of the line glass for the $600-800 area I believe.  Save the rest for the binos later on.

Edited by TheDrakeTaker - December/07/2007 at 12:19
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/07/2007 at 12:45
dwighet View Drop Down
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its a tuff one but its a life time investment.
Was just curious of the difference thats all.
 
Many thanks
 
Dwight
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/07/2007 at 12:57
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some of my best hunts were had w/an elite 4200 2.5-10x50 and a pair of fujion 7x50 milspec binos - both are very bright.
 
the elite 4200 w/ the illuminated #4 reticle is almost impossible to beat for the money.
go ahead and make that impossible to beat. you will not be disappointed. save your money.  there can't be that much difference as far as legal light shooting.  i have hunted
with zeiss, kahles, elites, meostars, and monarchs now and the elite 4200's are quite good.
 
if you can afford the S&B, do it.  but w/ the illumination on the 4200, it's an advantage.
 
good luck.
 
J
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/07/2007 at 12:59
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jon is right, it depends on what your legal shooting hours are.  Where I live we have one hour before til one hour after sunrise and sunset, if you only have 30 mins that might change things.  The 4200 is still very good, and yes I agree impossible to beat for the price.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/07/2007 at 13:04
dwighet View Drop Down
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the illuminated no.4 was the elite i had in mind.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/07/2007 at 13:33
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Get good binoculars first.  There have been a lot of instances when i was able to see a deer with binocs I wouldn't have been able to see otherwise, prepare for the shot, and then take it.   Unless you look through your scope all the time while you're hunting (not a good thing to do) binocs are the greatest aid.  I've said here many times I've never not taken a shot in low light because the rifle scope wasn't up to it.  Yea, it may be a little clearer with my Kahles CL 3-9X42 than it is with my Burris FFII 3-9X40, but both woprk right up until dark.  Pistol scopes are a different story.  I did not take shots when I used a 2X20; a 2-7X32 fixed that.  We hunt til 30 min after sunset in my area, which to me is dark.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/07/2007 at 14:08
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Hour before and after is a world of difference from 1/2 hour. That extra 30 min is a deal breaker with a lot of scopes. Bino's are great hunting tools but seeing an animal with the binos and than not being able to see it with your scope is heart breaking. Your rifle scope has to be bright and resolute enough to make the shot or all else is moot. In a gloomy bog with evergreens fully overhead and cloud cover....an hour after sunset....you can't have too much brightness and clarity......but you can have too little.

Focus
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/07/2007 at 14:43
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An hour after sunset where I am is absolutely dark; night vision or a spotlight would be required.  Sunset here is at 5:10PM  today.  At 5:45 yesterday, I could barely see a deer's outline at 50 yds in an open area against a fairly light background.  No way to shoot, no matter what scope or reticle you were using.  In the woods, it's just black.  Weater conditions can change this a few minutes either way, but certainly not 30 minutes.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/07/2007 at 15:03
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well the hour before and hour after is a blessing for hunting down here in the south.
 
some of my best hunts have been on clear evenings w/ a partial moon.
 
with my zeiss, meostar, elites and the likes - it was almost like nighthunting
looking over the fields and roads w/ ANY moon - you CAN take advantage, with good optics, of the hour after - hour before is less advantageous, but makes you get in the woods a lot earlier just in case. love it.
 
binos are essential - for under 600 (fujinon FMTR-sx) you can get leica, zeiss, swaro quality (sometimes better) - 7x50's are GREAT for whitetail hunting. and those are bright as hell.
 
happy hunting. i need to get in the woods.
 
J
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/07/2007 at 15:05
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We hunt coyotes up here through the night with no lights or night vision. Depends on cover you are in and whether you have snow on the ground, amount of moonlight, I've seen to shoot after midnight. Just makes the point that you can't have too much brightness and clarity. Lot of states have the hour before and hour after regs. doubt everybody comes out 1/2 hour early if they have optics that still can make the shot.

Quote I've said here many times I've never not taken a shot in low light because the rifle scope wasn't up to it.


You just made the statement that you've never seen a low light shot you couldn't make cause a scope wasn't up to it......I've seen it with lower brightness scopes.....many times.
   Focus

Edited by Focus - December/07/2007 at 15:11
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/07/2007 at 16:17
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Ahhhhh......you wish to hunt the low light times.....eh?? Sounds like some of you are, how you say.....fraidy pants? Big%20smile Over here dark woods not for zee nervous nellies..........need big euro scopes with manly objectivees. Skunk hunts dark woods for beeg ones........
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/07/2007 at 16:20
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UH OH!!!........................Here comes the "Skunk" again to grace our forum!!!Wacko 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/07/2007 at 16:44
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HMMMM, Gonna type this then sit on my hands.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/07/2007 at 16:54
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cyborg optics master now huh, going you to sit on hands now? no? Me, I like when people leave woods early, still I am in stand see many BEEG DEER, You leave early push them to me, OK? Skunk say thank you muches !!!!!!!!!  Get best scope you can and then Binocs second, Binocs not help if you can no shoot because scope not worth POO POO. yes?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/08/2007 at 04:09
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ConfusedWHAT DID HE SAY?????
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/08/2007 at 04:09
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Talks funny..
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/08/2007 at 08:14
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Yeah our furry and somewhat stinky friend always tends to lighten things up a bit. I think either scope will do you right for low light conditions but you are really comparing apples to oranges. Of course the S&B is going top provide more optics and overall quality, and if its going to be a lifetime investment may be your better pic. There would be scopes like kahles that pretty much equal the S&B for less spent however. I would agree that you're looking at slightly longer time afield with the S&B over the 4200 for sure. Service will also be much better.......and no doubt faster....

   Focus
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/08/2007 at 08:16
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empty the old check book in one hell of a hurry going s&b too
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/08/2007 at 11:16
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I wouldn't agree with skunk on this one! Around here we do much night hunting for boar,so I could share some of my experiences. Good binos are VITAL to successful  night hunting-because you need to  spot and observe animal prior to shooting it-it tends to be tricky especially on moonless  nights-you need to spot if it is a boar or sow,what size... And I think you will agree that even the best scopes are not as good for this as even medium quality binos. I personally use older pentax 8x40 binos,which are really really good. I compared them to Swaro 2,5-10x56 scope,and they beat it. So observing comes before shooting and if you observed your target well you can make a shot even with weaker scope as long as you can see the silhouette-here the choice of cross hairs makes the vital role -illuminated dot (as long as it is dim enough helps very much-very bright ones are useless)is great help,but scopes without illumination must be first focal plane with thicker crosshairs-ideal ones are 1 ,7 in my experience 4a crosshair is not that good because it lacks upper thick post and makes aiming at night more difficult- to make it clearer-you aim using your thick posts because you usually don't see the thin ones,you put the scope on highest magnification so all thick posts are inside the target,or if the animal is further you put it in the center and you can visualize where the crosshair thin center is.  I  successfully hunted with 1,5-6x42 Swaro Nova. I bought a 3,5-10x50 vxIII with illumination(I would buy a Swaro,Zeiss or Kahles without hesitation but I lacked the fundsUnhappy) and I have to test it-illumination is very,very good-even better than swaro's-it can be very,very dim,and the scope is very clear in daylight,but I doubt that it can be a match for Swaro,zeiss,kahles...  in the night.
When you hunt with the spotlight use medium magnification(I use 3) so you can find your target faster-because animals usually  run like hell when you turn the light on-especially if  they have been  shot at previously.
Conclusion is - buy decent binos and the best scope with illumination or FFP reticle you can  afford,and a spotlight-I recommend Lightforce.




Edited by Bender - December/08/2007 at 11:19
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/08/2007 at 11:21
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spot lights arent legal in every state especially for deer, now for hogs and varmints i think the laws relax some but im still pretty sure that a spotlight isnt going to be the answer for everybody, but i will give you credit its an idea where its legal.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/08/2007 at 11:34
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Good Points Bender........I think skunk was saying you need scope quality as well as binos, not instead. Over here the spotlights will get you a pass to the iron wigwam if you aren't careful to check local game laws. Gotta pretty much make use of moonlight and any reflected light. Some varmint and raccoon hunters do get to use lights with red filters however.

   Focus
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/08/2007 at 12:05
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NOT AGREE WITH ZEE SKUNK!!!  I will spray odoriferous skunk musk in your general direction....whew........sorry was on BENDER myself last nite,  much cheep french wine.  Tape your binos straddle to scope with ..   what you americans call it......ducks tape? Then both there to aid your eye........shoot beeg ones......Skunk
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/08/2007 at 12:13
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skunk imification as charles barkley would say what a nasty smell duct tape yeah its also called poor man chrome too
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