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40 mm or 50mm

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/11/2012 at 17:29
icon308 View Drop Down
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when I get my scope which should I get  id like it to be good at low light  but if im right is'nt anything bigger the a 7mm exit pupil wasted
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larger than 7m exit pupil is wasted so brigh scopes are like
4x28 or larger
5x35 or larger
6x42
7x49 or larger
8x56
 
So if you have a high power scope dial down in low light to brighten the image.
 
Another factor often missed is how much internal adjustment the scope has. That is one reason I like the Super Sniper line so well they have a huge amount of internal adjustment.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/11/2012 at 22:25
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I understand the math and logic behind the exit pupil and it is supposed to make perfect sense.However, I am not completely convinced though.I have talked with both Zeiss and Swarovski about this and both strongly contend that a larger objective is brighter even on the same magnification.Swarovski says a larger than 7 exit pupil is not wasted but gives your eye more wallow room;whatever that means.I think I understand what he was saying.These are two very old and brilliant scope makers.Also most all Germans who hunt at night choose a large objective and most a 56 mm.Another example of people who are experienced and should know saying go for a larger objective.My person observations tell me that small jumps in objective diameter dont account for much but a 40mm vs. 56mm is a little different with the 56 being brighter even on the same power setting.Nothing huge but noticeable in my opinion.I did however do some very successful hunting for deer in very low light this past season with a European 42mm scope. So with good quality optics I think you can do a lot and have a nice compact, low mounting scope.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/12/2012 at 13:05
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im also wondering if it helps with resolution
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/12/2012 at 13:10
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Swarovski techs say a larger objective = better resolution.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/12/2012 at 13:11
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Zeiss does also
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/12/2012 at 14:04
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They are right, of course.  The bigger than 7mm exit pupil isn't exactly wasted.  Apparent brightness isn't based on exit pupil alone.  Bigger objectives do lead to greater resolution potential, if you can discern it with your eyes.
 
I think UF is just talking in practical terms.  It is pretty hard to see the difference in brightness whe the exit pupil gets over 7mm.  Your eye does get to "roam" a bit more in low light.  It is easy to see a brightness difference when looking a exit pupils smaller than 7mm.  The resolution differences between scopes of similar quality and differing in objective size are also harder to see with the naked eye.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/12/2012 at 18:35
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is it worth the price increase ?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/12/2012 at 18:47
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Originally posted by icon308 icon308 wrote:

is it worth the price increase ?
 
It depends, IMO. 
 
I saw the 3-9X40 (mine) and 3-9X50 (another range member's) Conquests right next to each other one morning at the range and couldn't tell the difference.  It wasn't too bright out either.
 
Recently, I saw both 4-16 Viper HS LR scopes (44 and 50 objectives) and noticed a much cleaner image (to me) in the 50mm version.  This almost certainly has more to do with the total optical design than the objective size differences.
 
Often the ability to mount the scope lower trumps any minor advantages of a larger objective.


Edited by Bitterroot Bulls - February/12/2012 at 21:26
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/12/2012 at 18:59
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Yes I believe the larger objective does help some with resolution but it's a  subjective gain if the price difference is significant.  Honestly once you get into optics over $500 they better be good and once you get into optics over $1000 they better be great. Past 1000 the differences become more subtle and a lot of money may only buy you a slight advantage.  While its nice to have a top quality german glass scope if you do not have other features that aid you like helpful reticles, tactical knobs, illumination etc. -- you may just have a great view of the animal running away. I like great glass probably a lot more than most people but I've killed game with iron sight or moderately priced scopes a lot of times.  I happen to prefer a 50mm objective and a 30mm tube and tactical knobs or a balistic reticle but I would sacrifice much of that for great illumination.  Last scope I bought was this and this objective is way smaller than anything else I have but  its got a 6mm exit eye pupil at 4x and a 7mm exit eye pupil at  3.4 so its bright enough, but I can see the reticle all night long to shoot coyotes:
 
Trijicon 1-4x24 Accu-Point 30mm Rifle Scope Red Triangle Trijicon 1-4x24 Accu-Point 30mm Rifle Scope
Stock # - TR24R
  • Matte
  • Red Triangle
  • 30mm
$844.95 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/12/2012 at 19:05
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This should be one really sweet scope when they are in stock. Since they just came out Id call to ask about availability.
Zeiss 3-12x50 Conquest Duralyt 30mm Rifle Scope Zeiss 3-12x50 Conquest Duralyt 30mm Rifle Scope
Stock # - ZEI5254259960
  • Dark Grey
  • Illuminated #60
  • 30mm
  • Hunting Turrets
  • Etched Glass
  • 2nd Plane
$1,349.95 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/14/2012 at 21:27
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I have decided on the Zeiss conquest  do you think a 50 would stay a little brighter  and maybe add a few mins to hunt
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/14/2012 at 22:28
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You won't be disappointed with the Z-Con when the light gets low.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/14/2012 at 23:09
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What the 50 will do for you in low light is make the higher powers 7 and above brighter so if you are scanning the treeline it could make a difference in low light.  I really tend to think you want the 50  but once you get to that price this is just a little more and I would way rather have one of these.
Zeiss 4.5-14x50 Conquest Rifle Scope #4 Zeiss 4.5-14x50 Conquest Rifle Scope
Stock # - ZEI5214909904
  • Matte
  • #4
  • 1"
  • Side Focus
  • Target KnobsThunbs Up
  • Etched Glass
  • 2nd Plane
$879.95 
Zeiss 4.5-14x44 Conquest Rifle Scope Rapid Z 800 Zeiss 4.5-14x44 Conquest Rifle Scope
Stock # - ZEI5214309972
  • Matte
  • Rapid Z 800
  • 1"
  • Side Focus
  • Etched Glass
  • 2nd Plane
$899.95 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/14/2012 at 23:13
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http://www.kentonindustries.com/pics/ttctypes/

Zeiss Conquest, Classic, Diavari VM/V, & Victory Series
SPEED DIAL 
these are custom engraved for your bullet and caliber and the numbers represent hundred yds.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/14/2012 at 23:34
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Icon308--  I'm not an expert on anything to do with optics, but I'll throw a couple of things out for your consideration.  The "wallow room" they're talking about is a bigger eye box with the larger exit pupil.  In other words, the positioning of your eye behind the scope is not so critical to get a good view.  That may or may not be a big issue for you. 
 
The first scope I bought was a 2.5-10x56 Accupoint.  I was planning to do a lot of hunting at night and went through the same process you're going through and read the same things you're reading.  The German night hunting thing is different than what we do here.  The hunt at night but are not allowed to use lights.  Dusk hunting and night hunting with lights are much different.  The big Accupoint worked great, but it's big and heavy.  I switched to a 3-9x40 Accupoint, which is much smaller and lighter, and had no discernible functional decrease in what it offered me.
 
If you don't mind the extra size and weight, a 50mm obj certainly isn't going to cause a problem for you, and it might help in some cases.  I didn't see any difference between what the 40mm and 56mm obj offered me from dusk into full night (using a red light at night) at distances from 25-200 yards. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/15/2012 at 01:02
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I have hunted with and taken several deer in low light with the Zeiss conquest in a 3-9x50 mm.It is a good scope,however, to my eyes the Meopta Meopro 3-9x42mm is a brighter scope and @$399 (swfa) with a #4 reticle is one heck of a bargain.I shot deer this past season with that scope in some very low light and was not dissapointed at all.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/15/2012 at 18:19
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let me ask this the Zeiss conquest 3x9x50  or the Meopta Meostar 3-10x50
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/15/2012 at 18:38
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I know absolutely nothing about the Meostar other than many say it is a very good scope equal to the Conquest in many respects. I have the 3-9X50 Conquest with the #4 reticle. It is a great near dark scope only barely beat by the Kahles CL. The Zeiss has the blackest black reticle of any I have used. The Zeiss warranty is very good along with the CS department.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/15/2012 at 18:56
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I think the Meostar is very similar to the Swarovski Z3/Z5 lines in glass quality.  Eye relief is not great on the Meostar, but adequate for most calibers.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/15/2012 at 18:59
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I have heard the Meostar might be a hair better in low light
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