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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/24/2015 at 18:47
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So, I have been reading this for awhile and I now need help

 I have been looking for a mil dot scope for awhile. My only criteria is: 

1)Must be mil dot


2)must have mil scale reset-able target turrets

3)Must have the setting for the accurate mil scale at the highest setting or be FFP

4) Variable Zoom ( Shooting to maybe 500-700 yards.)

5) Decent Warranty. 

The gun is a Hog Hunter in 308. 

I have looked at the Millet TRS-1 and the Falcon Menace. I like the price on the Millet and the illuminated reticle, but the since its 4x16 and the mil scale is only accurate at 10 power, I am paying for 6 more "zooms" for no reason. The Menace is FFP, but the warranty scares me since its a British company. I dont want to ship my scope over seas if a problem arises. 

So what do yall think? I know the TRS-1 isnt viewed highly on here but, it seems to have good reviews. My budget cant go over $350. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/25/2015 at 09:05
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I have looked at the PA 4x14 FFP scope but Im apprehensive about the 3 year warranty...and its out of stock everywhere
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/25/2015 at 10:47
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Howdy SouthernWoodworking,
To meet your criteria, compromises must be made and one way to do that is to look at used vs new... The Sample List is a good place to start, for instance:
http://www.samplelist.com/-P72919.aspx 

note: I know nothing about this scope, other than it is listed for sale.


Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/25/2015 at 10:51
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Originally posted by Alan Robertson Alan Robertson wrote:

Howdy SouthernWoodworking,
To meet your criteria, compromises must be made and one way to do that is to look at used vs new... The Sample List is a good place to start, for instance:
http://www.samplelist.com/-P72919.aspx 

note: I know nothing about this scope, other than it is listed for sale.


Yea, that's a little cheaper then Amazon. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/25/2015 at 15:43
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Originally posted by Urimaginaryfrnd Urimaginaryfrnd wrote:

So what you are sayiung is you want to spend $350 for a $1000 scope. I can relate.
Once a guy really knows he wants a scope that will do what you are trying to do then he has to decide where to compromise. Look at SWFA's line of SS scopes the 3-9X42 with Mil Quad with 1/10 MOA clicks would be my pick but its not in your price range. The fixed power SS scopes are in your price range and come 6,10,12,16,20 I have owned all except the 12 and my favorite is the 16 w Mil Quad in the 6X I prefer the heavier lines of the mil dot, but 6x is the brightest in low light.

Yea but the cheapest SS is $600. Thats way over. If the Millet would work on a .308 well then im happy. I would get the Falcon, but I dont like the warranty. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/25/2015 at 17:51
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Originally posted by SouthernWoodworking SouthernWoodworking wrote:

Originally posted by Urimaginaryfrnd Urimaginaryfrnd wrote:

So what you are sayiung is you want to spend $350 for a $1000 scope. I can relate.
Once a guy really knows he wants a scope that will do what you are trying to do then he has to decide where to compromise. Look at SWFA's line of SS scopes the 3-9X42 with Mil Quad with 1/10 MOA clicks would be my pick but its not in your price range. The fixed power SS scopes are in your price range and come 6,10,12,16,20 I have owned all except the 12 and my favorite is the 16 w Mil Quad in the 6X I prefer the heavier lines of the mil dot, but 6x is the brightest in low light.

Yea but the cheapest SS is $600. Thats way over. If the Millet would work on a .308 well then im happy. I would get the Falcon, but I dont like the warranty. 


The cheapest SS is $300 and they are fixed power.

What is the intended use?

Hunting or targets?

And what is the minimum range you would be shooting at?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/26/2015 at 05:57
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Its going to be used for hunting from 50-250 yards and target shooting way past that. When refering to the cheapest SS I was talking about variable zoom. Sorry if that wasnt clear. I have looked through the SS fixed scope and like them. Nice scope for money no doubt, but I cannot used fixed if a hog or deer comes running out at 50 yards or worse, a mad hog at 10 yards...
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/26/2015 at 06:29
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Hmmmm wonder if you'd like the new SS 1-4X32.
 
You can't beat the both eyes open and Close quarters capability.  They are good to 400+ yds.
 
Your to extremes of use are a hard nut to crack with one scope especially one under $1000... Whacko
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/26/2015 at 08:49
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I mean, I dont think 1x4 would work for me since I want to shoot longrange.

Yea they are really two extremes. Is the TRS scope bad?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/26/2015 at 09:25
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IMO the Millet and the Falcon are both crap.  I have used them both, I would never own either of them. 
Quality reliable scopes in that price range with the features you want are like a unicorn.  Everyone wants one, and many make one and try to sell it as a great scope, but they all are very lacking.

I used to buy all the cheap scopes like that thinking they would be good enough for my needs and whatnot.  But they weren't,  they would not hold zero, the adjustments were never accurate or consistent.  Shooting rifles is all about those things, if the scope is not accurate then the rifle can't be either. 

I owned a Savage 10fp years ago. (wish I still owned it) Occasionally that gun was crazy accurate but I could not get it to group consistently all the time.  Eventually I sold the rifle thinking it was just a lemon.  Being the rookie that I was with optics, I had tried 3 different scopes and it would not shoot well with any of them.  So I figured it must be the gun.  I had a Tasco Target 6-24x, and two different BSA 4-16 targets.  Next I bought a Remington VS and tried the same scopes.  Dang thing would not shoot well either.  Then I started doing research and realized maybe I just have crappy scopes.  So I bought an IOR 3-18x and wham, the VS could shoot.  Man did it shoot.  Big eye opener for me. 

I am not saying a Falcon or Millet is in the same league as a BSA, but I don't think they are far off personally.  Cheap do all scopes are always lacking. 

I know this is not what you want to hear, but try and save up some more.  Or buy a $300 3-9x hunting type scope for now and save up for a nicer one later on.  You will ultimately be much happier. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/26/2015 at 15:26
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Originally posted by supertool73 supertool73 wrote:

IMO the Millet and the Falcon are both crap.  I have used them both, I would never own either of them. 
Quality reliable scopes in that price range with the features you want are like a unicorn.  Everyone wants one, and many make one and try to sell it as a great scope, but they all are very lacking.

I used to buy all the cheap scopes like that thinking they would be good enough for my needs and whatnot.  But they weren't,  they would not hold zero, the adjustments were never accurate or consistent.  Shooting rifles is all about those things, if the scope is not accurate then the rifle can't be either. 

I owned a Savage 10fp years ago. (wish I still owned it) Occasionally that gun was crazy accurate but I could not get it to group consistently all the time.  Eventually I sold the rifle thinking it was just a lemon.  Being the rookie that I was with optics, I had tried 3 different scopes and it would not shoot well with any of them.  So I figured it must be the gun.  I had a Tasco Target 6-24x, and two different BSA 4-16 targets.  Next I bought a Remington VS and tried the same scopes.  Dang thing would not shoot well either.  Then I started doing research and realized maybe I just have crappy scopes.  So I bought an IOR 3-18x and wham, the VS could shoot.  Man did it shoot.  Big eye opener for me. 

I am not saying a Falcon or Millet is in the same league as a BSA, but I don't think they are far off personally.  Cheap do all scopes are always lacking. 

I know this is not what you want to hear, but try and save up some more.  Or buy a $300 3-9x hunting type scope for now and save up for a nicer one later on.  You will ultimately be much happier. 
Whats the difference between a $300 hunting scope and $300 "tactical" scope? I know the Millett has more magnification but they both would be "cheap" scopes. Its hard for me to justify spending TWICE the amount of money on a scope then the gun it sits on. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/26/2015 at 16:02
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With a basic hunting scope, it will not have any bells and whistles, like fancy reticle, target turrets, parallax adjustments, illumination, etc.  All those things cost money to add to a scope.  Since a basic hunting scope does not have all that, the money spent can focus on glass quality and durability which IMO are very important.  When you add all that to a tactical scope and still keep the price at $300 then everything in that optical device has had to be designed and built to a cheaper standard to keep with that budget. 

Good scopes are very specialized on what they are meant for.  And for the most part are prices accordingly.  If you want a high end tactical scope that does all I mentioned above and does it all well they typically add some coin to the cost. 

I honestly used to feel the same way about scopes vs gun prices.  For years my most expensive scope was a $99 Bushnell Legend.  It was so much better than my $30 tascos it was not funny, and I could not imagine anything could be better.  I still have that scope and have a couple Bushnell 4200s that I paid $249 for and they blow that Legend away optically.  For a long time, I had no idea why anyone would pay so much for a scope.  Even $300 seemed outrageous to me.  But after the story I told above I finally got it.  Now the cheapest scope I own besides the Legend was I think $200 and the most was about $1700.  They all have there place and their role. 

The SWFA SS variable line are excellent.  And they are honestly cheap for what you are getting.  But honestly you will do what you want and what fits your budget, I just hate to see people buy stuff they will not be happy with.  But to each his own. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/26/2015 at 18:07
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Don't get hung up about putting more money in the scope than the gun.  Supertool is right about better quality glass beating cheaper higher mag scopes.  regardless a 3-9 variable sounds like your best bet for achieving what you want in scope and budget...
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/26/2015 at 18:18
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I jump in on this for this one point, VERY few accurate rifles will shoot with poor quality optics. Many mediocre rifles will shoot good with high quality glass!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/27/2015 at 05:52
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Originally posted by budperm budperm wrote:

Don't get hung up about putting more money in the scope than the gun.  Supertool is right about better quality glass beating cheaper higher mag scopes.  regardless a 3-9 variable sounds like your best bet for achieving what you want in scope and budget...

Oh yea, Im not saying he is wrong. Im just saying I cannot afford that. Being in school, I dont have much spending money. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/27/2015 at 06:36
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I hear ya!!!!  I'm blue collar single income with kids....money is scarious!
 
There are many 3-9 scopes that would be a fairly good starting point but for your budget don't expect to be satisfied for long unless you luck into a deal.  Maybe an older Vortex, Weaver, Bushy Elite or similar would be doable within your budget... 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/27/2015 at 11:50
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Pigs like darkness, especially when pressured.

Look at scopes that do well in low light.

To make it even more difficult to decide.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/27/2015 at 14:45
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Originally posted by Rancid Coolaid Rancid Coolaid wrote:

Pigs like darkness, especially when pressured.

Look at scopes that do well in low light.

To make it even more difficult to decide.
Thanks for help! HAHA Whacko

I think Im gonna go with the PA 4x14 scope. Its got good reviews, just came back in stock, and I have been recommended it a lot. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/27/2015 at 15:36
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Hmmmm, I was curious, so I looked. 
 
Please take this with a grain of salt as I'm no subject matter expert however.....
 
1)  I've never heard of Primary Arms
 
2) even though they are Texas Based they started business in 2007 per their own admission.
 
3) I've never seen a $225 FFP scope of any quality...  Not saying it isn't possible...
 
If anyone here has heard of them My bet would be ILya Koshkin our "Dark Lord Of Optics"
 
ILya is an Optical Engineer of the highest caliber and evaluates scopes for EVERYBODY.  He is one of the most experienced yet object evaluators I've ever encountered.
 
Please before you pull your trigger I'd try very hard to get his opinion.... then LISTEN to it!  Better advice I can't give!!!
 
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/27/2015 at 16:09
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Some true pearls of wisdom on this thread.  A simpler scope with good glass will be more useful for longer than a scope of similar price with all of the bells and whistles you list.  But the real benefit will be when you move past school and start making a little cash in that glorious time between school and marriage (when you actually get to spend the money you make), you will have a quality scope to put on a different rifle and will last you a long time, and you won't have something that just "got you by".

Any one of these, around the price point you suggest, would be great for your purposes, but don't necessarily meet your requirements, IMO:

Riflescopes

Zeiss 3-9x42 Terra Rifle Scope DEMO-A

Product Grading Information

DEMO A: Like New In Box
DEMO B: Shows Very Slight Wear From Use
DEMO C: Shows Obvious Signs of Use
  $379.95

Zeiss 3-9x42 Terra Rifle Scope DEMO-A

Stock # - SPL20630
Add to Wishlist
< name="ctl00$wpm$ShowProduct$ctl10$Quantity" value="1" maxlength="5" size="2" id="ctl00_wpm_ShowProduct_ctl10_Quantity" style="width:30px;" ="text">
Zeiss 3-9x42 TerraNew Price: $449.95
Manufacture Part#:522701-9979
Reticle: RZ6
Finish: Matte
Tube Diameter: 1"
DEMO-A

Riflescopes

Zeiss 3-9x50 Terra Rifle Scope DEMO-B

Product Grading Information

DEMO A: Like New In Box
DEMO B: Shows Very Slight Wear From Use
DEMO C: Shows Obvious Signs of Use
  $319.95

Zeiss 3-9x50 Terra Rifle Scope DEMO-B

Stock # - SPL21327
Add to Wishlist
< name="ctl00$wpm$ShowProduct$ctl10$Quantity" value="1" maxlength="5" size="2" id="ctl00_wpm_ShowProduct_ctl10_Quantity" style="width:30px;" ="text">
Manufacture Part#: 5227319979
Reticle: RZ 6
Finish: Matte
Tube Diameter: 1"
DEMO-B

Riflescopes

Sightron 3-9x42 SII Big Sky Rifle Scope DEMO-B

Product Grading Information

DEMO A: Like New In Box
DEMO B: Shows Very Slight Wear From Use
DEMO C: Shows Obvious Signs of Use
  $349.95

Sightron 3-9x42 SII Big Sky Rifle Scope DEMO-B

Stock # - SPL19658
Add to Wishlist
< name="ctl00$wpm$ShowProduct$ctl10$Quantity" value="1" maxlength="5" size="2" id="ctl00_wpm_ShowProduct_ctl10_Quantity" style="width:30px;" ="text">
Sightron 3-9x42 SII New Price: $455.95
Manufacture Part#: SIIB3942HHR
Reticle: Hunter Holdover
Finish: Matte
Tube Diameter: 1"
DEMO-B


Edited by DCAMM94 - January/27/2015 at 16:16
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/27/2015 at 16:24
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Originally posted by DCAMM94 DCAMM94 wrote:

Some true pearls of wisdom on this thread.  A simpler scope with good glass will be more useful for longer than a scope of similar price with all of the bells and whistles you list.  But the real benefit will be when you move past school and start making a little cash in that glorious time between school and marriage (when you actually get to spend the money you make), you will have a quality scope to put on a different rifle and will last you a long time, and you won't have something that just "got you by".

Oh yea! A lot of help on here by people who know WAYYY more then me. I totally agree with you on the "buy once, cry once" mentality. I have other scopes that I could put on this gun. Right now, I can only spend a MAX of $400 on scope and that wont change for the next 6 months.  
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/27/2015 at 18:11
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So really, the bare minimum I could spend would be about $550 to 600? Or would $500 work? 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/27/2015 at 18:26
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You operational envelope is not all that challenging if you have gear that is well made.

Trying to find a scope with a lot of bells and whistles for $400 is asking for trouble.  What you need is a fairly basic hunting scope with a reticle that will support low light operation and, potentially, holdover shooting out to 700 yards.

The Primary Arms scope is well conceived, but not well executed.  It is not PA's fault.  Chinese factory can not yet make products like this at the $300-$400 price point consistently.

Sometimes you get a good one, but most people who buy these shop on price point and never use the all of the features of the scope.

If I were I would be looking at something along these lines:
Later, you can get a custom elevation turret for this scope that will work for your load (Nikon's Spot-On turrets).  

That gets you your mildot reticle, so until you get the turret you can learn to holdover with the reticle.  

Another option would be to forget the whole mildot business for the time being and go for something like this:
Illuminated reticle helps in low light and for your plinking at 700 yards, the reticle will help.

Another option within your budget is one of Hi-Lux/Leatherwood Uni-Dial scopes:
Their quality control is about as good as you will get out of China.  Uni-dial scopes are not as polished as I would like, but they work.

Lastly, you can try this:
It is definitely not Leupold's best scope, but it works as long as you let the turrets settle.



ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/27/2015 at 21:27
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My go-to budget scopes are Redfields.

They do not offer mil-dot, but the Battlezone line has a nifty MOA reticle that works well okay ranging.

Tracks well and a side-by side comparison with a Vortex Viper's glass the Revenge was much better.


I have a 6-18x Varmint reticle on an AR-15 16" bull, and a 6-18 Battlezone MOA Tac on an AR-10 20" SASS.(for now).

I use them for shooting targets out to 1000.  As for durability and hunting I can give you no hard information.

The high powered scopes can be found for 225-230.  Another website had a sale on the 3-9 quick-dial for $115! Whacko
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/27/2015 at 22:21
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Man if you're going to spend 600, get the swfa ss 3-9x. It's absolutely great for what you want, ffp, mil/mil and the glass is great.

Guess what guys, we almost doubled his budget in less than a day!

Welcome to the OT, my friend. Get used to it!
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