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338/06?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/22/2011 at 06:10
Cooper25 View Drop Down
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I have a 700 30/06 with a shot out barrel and was going to rebarrel in 280 AI and then I thought maybe, since I already have a 280 I should do something different so I been thinkin of a 338/06.
I don't really need it for anything, just read that they are super accurate rounds and might be fun.
Anyone have any experience with them? 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/22/2011 at 07:08
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I had a S&W (Howa) rebarreled to .338-06 last year and I am having fun working up loads for it.  Recoil is not bad at all.  Still in the development stage on my loads so I cannot comment as to accuracy yet.  My excuse for making one was "well I don't have anything in .338 cal......."  make one up and have fun.  Soooo many calibers and soooo little time....
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/22/2011 at 07:46
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lol yeah that is kinda why I was thinkin of it, I don't have one
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/22/2011 at 07:49
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 I don't have one but researched about it,the 35 Whelen,and 9.3x62 when I'd decided to have a rifle rebored to a medium bore.  Seems all three do the same thing.  Shoot heavy bullets at moderate velocities.  So I decided,since I already had a .308 caliber rifle,to go with the one with the largest diameter of the three (9.3 or .366). 
  If your largest bore bolt rifle is a .280 then you'd be making a substantial jump in diameter and bullet weight.  Go for it.  They are a fun group of cartridges.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/22/2011 at 08:42
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.35 whelen would be titsBig Grin
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/22/2011 at 09:07
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I had a 30-06 converted to 338-06, but it is still in "limbo" right now.  A highly specialized stock was being constructed for it and the stock maker quit.  It is sitting waiting on completion.  Has a Lothar Walther 30in stainless barrel, Timney trigger set at 3lb, stock is completely custom for my measurements.  Guess it will be complete someday.  I like the concept... very heavy bullets out to about 400 yd max range.  Certainly capable of taking anything on North America and most African big game.  
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/22/2011 at 10:15
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Originally posted by pyro6999 pyro6999 wrote:

.35 whelen would be titsBig Grin
 
Wow, when did this come back. You weren't even born when that was the "cool" thing to say.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/22/2011 at 10:56
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If I go above 30-cal, I need a new suppressor.

Damn, I need a new (cheaper) hobby.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/22/2011 at 12:49
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Originally posted by tahqua tahqua wrote:

Originally posted by pyro6999 pyro6999 wrote:

.35 whelen would be titsBig Grin
 
Wow, when did this come back. You weren't even born when that was the "cool" thing to say.

ive used that for almost 20yrs nowBuckyBucky
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/23/2011 at 01:35
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Among other rifles I have a .338-06. My rifle has a 23 inch, 1-12 twist Lilja, #3 contour, stainless barrel, and FN mauser (J.C.Higgins M50) action. I stocked it myself using a laminated blank. I use a Leupold 2.5-8X VXIII scope in Burris ZEE rings and Weaver aluminum bases. I fire form .30-06 brass with cream of wheat and AA #2 pistol powder.
I have used a variety of bullets from 180 gr  to 250 gr. My common load is a max charge of H4350 and the 215 gr Sierra GK bullet. Velocites are just under 2700 fps. On a recent elk hunt, upon Barnes bullet's recommendations - to get a flatter trajectory - I used their 185 gr tipped triple shock with Varget powder I would guess that velocites are about 200 fps faster. 
 
The gunsmith who installed the barrel recommended using the 250 gr. Nosler partition with lots of IMR 4350  but he shoots lots of African game with a .375 & .416 and likes heavy bullets (deep big holes).
 
Trajectories with 250 gr bullets in the 2550 fps range are sort of disapointing beyond 200 yds and 225's at 2650 fps plus faster are better thus my selection of the 215 Sierra boat tail. .338-06 impact velocites are not that great and I think that ordinary jacketed bullets are OK for much hunting. It fits in the nitch of a moderate range (200-250) yd rifle using moderate heavy bullets for big game such as elk. Being a varmint hunter I hope to shoot hogs with it one day. If I had to shoot real flat out to 400 yds I would consider the 160 gr Barnes tipped bullet at about 3000 plus fps but I have a .30-06 for that. 
 
Accuracy is good and recoil is not that bad but I did manage to break the reticle of a old 6x Burris full field shooting the 225 gr Hornady with H4350. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/23/2011 at 20:24
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Just another option but have you looked at a 6.5-06. They are pretty awesome!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/24/2011 at 01:10
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Thanks for the thoughts think I am just gonna do another 280AI, this one strictly for hunting.
Think it is a great round and a blast to shoot.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/24/2011 at 07:46
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the .280ai is never a bad choiceExcellent
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/24/2011 at 15:53
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Unless you prefer something with some power...
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/24/2011 at 16:10
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KB at work with his "something with some power..."


Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/24/2011 at 16:14
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You just HAD to put a tree in there...
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/24/2011 at 16:35
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Tree?  What tree?  I only see a toothpick factory.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/24/2011 at 17:34
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As long as the 6.5-06 was brought up.
Easy to load, can use .25-06, .270, and .30-06 brass - if you neck down outside turn necks down and trim whatever is used.
Great bullet selection - both hunting and target
Duplicates performance of 6.5-.284 (a favored LR round) but with more commonly available brass and probably would feed better.
Great LR deer round and super powerful varmint round especially with 100 gr. Hornady AMAX at more than 3300 fps
The only down side is that barrel life is not so great at about 1500 rounds
 
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/25/2011 at 01:23
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On the .280 AI
 
There are 2 versions
 
The old or original one designed by Ackley is chambered .004 inches short to enable a crush fit for fireforming .280 Remington cases.
 
The new version or Nosler or SAAMI version is chambered .014 shorter than the original Ackey version - what this means is that Nosler brass can't be safely used in an rifle with the original AI type chamber because of excessive headspace. Factory .280 brass can be fire formed in the shorter chamber after being run through a .280 AI SAAMI full length die.
 
Just be sure of what kind of chamber you have and make your ammo accordingly. Chamber reamers can be had in each version.
 
Another item is that the regular .280 Rem loaded ammo is sort of wimpy and with careful handloading the regular .280 Rem can be safey boosted in performance.
 
Finally there is the "rule of 4" that says that for every 4 percent increase of case capacity 1 percent of velocity can be gained. Looking at the Hodgdon manual shows minor velocity gains for the AI over the standard version. I am sort of doubtful over claimed velocity gains for the AI shown in other manuals. But that is just my opinion. Often improved cartridges are loaded super hot in excess of 64K psi.
 
In any event there are many nice 7mm bullets and my first white tail deer was shot feet short of 400 yds with the 139 gr Hornady boat tail from a .280 Rem.
 
 
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/25/2011 at 02:26
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[QUOTE=Stevey Ducks] On the .280 AI
 
There are 2 versions
 
The old or original one designed by Ackley is chambered .004 inches short to enable a crush fit for fireforming .280 Remington cases.
 
The new version or Nosler or SAAMI version is chambered .014 shorter than the original Ackey version - what this means is that Nosler brass can't be safely used in an rifle with the original AI type chamber because of excessive headspace. Factory .280 brass can be fire formed in the shorter chamber after being run through a .280 AI SAAMI full length die.
 
Just be sure of what kind of chamber you have and make your ammo accordingly. Chamber reamers can be had in each version.
 
Another item is that the regular .280 Rem loaded ammo is sort of wimpy and with careful handloading the regular .280 Rem can be safey boosted in performance.
 
Finally there is the "rule of 4" that says that for every 4 percent increase of case capacity 1 percent of velocity can be gained. Looking at the Hodgdon manual shows minor velocity gains for the AI over the standard version. I am sort of doubtful over claimed velocity gains for the AI shown in other manuals. But that is just my opinion. Often improved cartridges are loaded super hot in excess of 64K psi.
 
In any event there are many nice 7mm bullets and my first white tail deer was shot feet short of 400 yds with the 139 gr Hornady boat tail from a .280 Rem.
 
 
 
I just read something on this.  Since I already have a 280Ai, how do I find out which is which.  Gunsmith that did the work never brought this up.  I have used Nosler brass and fire formed 280. Will want same chamber as on the other one so as to not cause confusion.  Thought about just building a straight 280, will have to think on this some more.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/25/2011 at 14:22
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Does unfired, unloaded, unprimed .280 brass chamber in your rifle? If they do chances are that you have the older version (longer) chamber.
 
When you use Nosler brass do the primers look excessively flat, like expanded out beyond the brass primer pocket? If so chances are that you have the older version (longer) chamber and normal chamber pressures are extruding the primers beyond the brass primer pocket because of excess headspace. The solution for that is to expand out necks to .30 cal then neck them down to 7mm leaving a smaller shoulder on the neck to headspace on. The Rem 700 has a spring loaded plunger type ejector that, upon closing the bolt will shove brass forward into the chamber. 
 
In any event (again), these are my thoughts that many people disagree with, when you have more than one rifle of the same caliber in your stable sort out your fired brass using separate groups for each rifle of the same caliber (don't mix brass).  Even non improved, non wildcat cartridges have headspace variations making brass sorting useful. If you sort out brass for each of your .280 AI's having two different chamber types will not be a big deal.
 
Just my thoughts - when I like something I usually have more than one.
 
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/25/2011 at 16:33
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Yeah when I fire the Nosler the primers look a tad flat. At least the last load I fired did this. 60.5 gr of 4831Sc, the load at 60 grains didn't show any flattening. 
The only regular 280 I have loaded was a box of regular 280 ammo that I bought and just fire formed, it loaded chambered fine.
So you are saying run the nosler brass through 30/06 die and then back through the 280?
 
I agree on the separating brass for each gun,  I have two 30/06's and find that it works better to have separate brass and loads for each gun.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/25/2011 at 22:36
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No don't completely resize any .280 brass completely with .30-06 dies because the .30-06 has a shorter base to shoulder length than the .280 Rem. If the .280 brass is full length resized in .30-06 dies the shoulder of the .280's will be set way back. Just resize the neck up to .30 then back to 7mm leaving a second little shoulder on the neck for headspacing - the .280 die would be backed off for this operation.
The reason why the .280 was made longer from base to shoulder than the .30-06, .270 was to prevent .280 rounds from being jammed into .270 rifles - .284 vs .277 . If an attempt to load a .280 into a .270 the .280 bullet some .007 larger would probably be shoved back into the case and when fired make someting bust open. 
 
Various loading manuals have cartridge dimensions that will clarify this.
 
At this point it looks like you have a longer .280 AI improved chamber or the original Ackley version designed some .004 short to enable a crush fit. Regular garden variety Winchester or Remington .280 brass (much cheaper) should work just fine. The new Win or Rem .280 brass should chamber with a slight resistance to indicate a crush fit. Then just fireform. No need to mess around with the more expensive Nosler .280 AI brass
 
Bullets are expensive and you might consider fireforming brass with cream of wheat/rice and pistol powder. I never have done this with a .280 but have done it with .338-06, .375-.338, and .257 Roberts Imp. I have used AA#2 - I would need to do some research on how much to use. The trick is to put enough in to get a nice sharp shoulder in the improved brass. Taking 7 -10 percent by weight of the case capacity of an entire case full of pistol powder might be a start. Like if the case holds 70 gr of powder start with 5-7 grains. You don't have to worry about bullets being stuck in the barrel. Prime, charge with powder then fill to within 1/4 inch of the case mouth with COW/R then seal with Crisco or Bore Butter. Use common sense & be smart - pistol powder is violenty powerful.
 
I bet a good load of H4831 with 120 gr bullet in the .280 AI would really fly. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/26/2011 at 15:36
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Originally posted by cbm cbm wrote:

Just another option but have you looked at a 6.5-06. They are pretty awesome!
+++
6.5-06 is ever so fine.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/26/2011 at 16:51
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Shilen built a 338-06 scout with 23.5 barrel and integral scope mount for me, mauser VZ24 action.
 
It's my only hunting ifle, everything from rabbits to bear.
Longest shot was 397 yards, measured, sling prone, on an elk, bloodtrail was under the animal  :)
 
Sierra's work best, 215's and 250's are great,  as is the Hornady 250RN, but it does not care for the Hornady 225.
 
You just cannot go wrong with this cartridge.


Edited by Mike McDonald - December/26/2011 at 16:52
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