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3-12X or 4-16X for long range deer?

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    Posted: October/23/2017 at 15:10
I have a friend who is buying her son a rifle for his 18th birthday. It is a lightweight hunting rifle (Winchester XPR) chambered in 6.5 Creedmoor. It will be used on their Montana property for extracting whitetail deer and Pronghorn from alfalfa fields, with common shooting distances of 300-450 yards.

My question to you is which magnification range is best for such an application, 12X on the high end or 16X? He will rarely if ever see shots under 100 yards. Thanks.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SVT_Tactical Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/23/2017 at 16:09

12X with good glass will trump 16x with poor glass.....

we might be better to help if you give us a budget and let us make some suggestions...

whats his experience level?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote seattlesetters Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/23/2017 at 16:31
She’s getting a Weaver Grand Slam (new redesigned model). She’s a single mom (widowed) and she gave me $1,000.00 and instructions to “Buy a Winchester and a Weaver. That’s what my dad and grandpa always used.”

The rifle and cartridge and optics are already picked. Just wondering if I should get her (him) the 3-12X or 4-16X.

If this was going to be a more normal woods rifle I’d get the 3-12X but it really is going to be more like a bean field rifle where he’ll be shooting across wide open fields all the time and practicing out to 600 yards.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SVT_Tactical Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/23/2017 at 16:40

I'd go 4-16 in your scenario.....  gaining on the top end and only loosing 1x on the bottom is worth it.


You purchasing from SWFA?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SVT_Tactical Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/23/2017 at 16:48
"Most folks are about as happy as they make their minds up to be" - Abraham Lincoln
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote seattlesetters Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/23/2017 at 17:34
Originally posted by SVT_Tactical SVT_Tactical wrote:


https://swfa.com/weaver-4-16x44-grand-slam-rifle-scope-6.html


What you going to do for mounts?


Don't forget ammo - https://swfa.com/ammunition/rifle.html?calibergauge=6.5%20Creedmoor


I’m getting the Weaver GS mounts. They will be getting a few different boxes of ammo locally so he can figure out what the rifle likes before she buys bulk.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote koshkin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/23/2017 at 18:59
It probably does not matter at this stage, since you seem reasonably set, but Weaver Grand Slam scope rings stink.  Royally.  If you get GS rings, make sure you lap them.

The Grand Slam scope is adequate.  I do not think the re-design they made a few years ago (4 or 5) was an improvement, but it works alright.

The reticles are not terribly impressive, especially in fading light.  If he needs to shoot beyond point blank range, they are less than ideal, but with a little practice they should work fine.

6.5 Creedmoor is a fairly flat shooting caliber, so he should be OK most of the time.

Between 3-13x and 4-16x, for your situation, go with the 4-16x.  EB-X reticle is generally the most serviceable of Weaver's reticles, so I would go with that.

ILya
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote seattlesetters Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/23/2017 at 22:53
Originally posted by koshkin koshkin wrote:

It probably does not matter at this stage, since you seem reasonably set, but Weaver Grand Slam scope rings stink.  Royally.  If you get GS rings, make sure you lap them.

The Grand Slam scope is adequate.  I do not think the re-design they made a few years ago (4 or 5) was an improvement, but it works alright.

The reticles are not terribly impressive, especially in fading light.  If he needs to shoot beyond point blank range, they are less than ideal, but with a little practice they should work fine.

6.5 Creedmoor is a fairly flat shooting caliber, so he should be OK most of the time.

Between 3-13x and 4-16x, for your situation, go with the 4-16x.  EB-X reticle is generally the most serviceable of Weaver's reticles, so I would go with that.

ILya

Thanks for responding.

I am very much trying to stick to her wishes of a “Winchester and a Weaver” but when a fairly recent widow puts $1,000.00 in your PayPal account and gives you those instructions along with a caveat to include receipts (she knows I’ll add my own money), you try to do it right. :-)

I think I can sneak in some rings (Burris would be my cool choice) and I’m open to suggestions.

I’d also love to tell her what $350.00 - $450.00 scope to get but I’d need a compelling reason to bring it up to her. Remember, Weaver is what her daddy and grandpa used, and she now wants to bring up her son (and daughter) in their mold.

Can you help me out? I haven’t shopped for mid-price scopes in quite some time. Give me something I can take to her,
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote seattlesetters Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/23/2017 at 22:56
BTW, I am not a huge Leupold fan. I think they’re overpriced, with a lot of the cost going into the extremely expensive repairs and replacements they do with thousands of products every year.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote koshkin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/24/2017 at 07:44
I like some Leupold scopes better than others. Generally, I like their higher end offerings (VX-R and up).

Look, if she specifically wants Weaver, Grand Slam should do alright.  It is probably not a battle worth fighting.  The rings, however, are a battle worth fighting.  No matter how good the scope is, putting it into substandard rings is not a good thing.

ILya
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote seattlesetters Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/24/2017 at 09:25
Originally posted by koshkin koshkin wrote:

I like some Leupold scopes better than others. Generally, I like their higher end offerings (VX-R and up).

Look, if she specifically wants Weaver, Grand Slam should do alright.  It is probably not a battle worth fighting.  The rings, however, are a battle worth fighting.  No matter how good the scope is, putting it into substandard rings is not a good thing.

ILya

I’ll sneak in some Burris rings. :-)

I get a pro deal on Bushnell and Steiner optics so maybe I could get some better glass from Bushy at a lower price? Even with the big discount, nothing from Steiner fits in the budget, I’m afraid.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote koshkin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/24/2017 at 11:58
Do you get a discount on Burris scopes?

Veracity is a very respectable scope.

Fullfield E1 is a little dated, but surprisingly decent.

I am not terribly impressed impressed with Bushnell in this price range.

ILya
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jonoMT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/24/2017 at 12:13
Speaking from actually experiencing shooting whitetails in Montana alfalfa fields at 300+ yards, you can't go wrong with either a SS 3-9 (little lighter, little better glass) or the SS 3-15, which is what I've used to shoot them. You'll want good glass 'cause often there are clumps of whitetail-colored alfalfa left from mowing (if the rancher hasn't put the hay up yet). When they drop, they're hard to spot.
Reaction time is a factor...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote seattlesetters Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/24/2017 at 15:18
Originally posted by koshkin koshkin wrote:

Do you get a discount on Burris scopes?

Veracity is a very respectable scope.

Fullfield E1 is a little dated, but surprisingly decent.

I am not terribly impressed impressed with Bushnell in this price range.

ILya

So far, I only have pro deals with Weaver, Bushnell and Steiner.

I actually like the Burris Veracity (the scope, not necessarily the name chosen for it) very much.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote seattlesetters Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/24/2017 at 15:22
Originally posted by jonoMT jonoMT wrote:

Speaking from actually experiencing shooting whitetails in Montana alfalfa fields at 300+ yards, you can't go wrong with either a SS 3-9 (little lighter, little better glass) or the SS 3-15, which is what I've used to shoot them. You'll want good glass 'cause often there are clumps of whitetail-colored alfalfa left from mowing (if the rancher hasn't put the hay up yet). When they drop, they're hard to spot.

Thanks for this. Most helpful. I am certain I never would have thought about having to deal with whitetail-colored alfalfa. It makes sense, though.

Just goes to show you there really is no substitute for actual experience.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Urimaginaryfrnd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/24/2017 at 20:13
I like a 4-16 once you are at 16 to 20 on the top end you can better evaluate the antlers which can make a difference.

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