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3-12 Scope Choice

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/21/2009 at 05:30
adamjp View Drop Down
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Greetings....
 
I've been lurking for some time and with my new rifle arriving, I find I need a new scope to go with it.  I liked the 2009 scope rating list, but it is only a guide as I can't balance the various bits against eash other.
 
First - The Rifle & it's use
The rifle is a Rem700 in 7mm SAUM.  It is fitted into a MAK tubegun kit and is intended for use at longish range on pigs in wheatfields.Yippee This will be during the day, on dusk and under a spotlight at night.  Typical engagement ranges will be out to 500m.
 
Second - The Scope
I have looked hard at alot of scopes - over the web.  Having thought hard about what I want, I think a 3-12 scope with a BDC reticle will work best for my use.  Turrets are great on the range, but painful in the field.  Higher magnification just is not necessary IMHO.  My other hunting rifles are fitted with a who's who of 6x42/44/50 type scopes and one 3-9 on the 300H&H.
 
So my question is......
With the 3-12x44BDC Nikon Monarch as a benchmark (not actually available locally so I've never seen one)?  Is the Zeiss Conquest 3-12x56 that much better (particularly since you can't get RapidZ)?  How does the Sightron 3-12x44HHR compare?  Where does the Meopta 3-12x50#4B fit in?  I have always liked Kahles scopes, but their 4-12x56MultiZer0 is kinda pricey.  What else have I missed?
 
[begin rant]
Finally, please don't direct me to the bargains on the SampleList.  I bought from SWFA back in 2002, but they won't sell to me anymoreLoco.  Turns out that Australian's can't be trusted by SWFA.  Our economy is in better shape, our postal system works, our banks are some of the largest in the world (and aren't broken), our troops fight right NOW in Iraq and Afghanistan (and WW1, WW2, Korea, Vietnam, Somalia, Iraq 1), we are a tier 1 ally, and we have a free trade agreement.  I'll unfortunately be buying from someone else - don't suggest who, that would violate forum policy (reasonably so too).
[end rant]
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/21/2009 at 06:14
silver View Drop Down
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adamjp,
 
SWFA has government contracts and those contracts say they can't sell to you.  It's the US government you should be mad at. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/21/2009 at 06:42
adamjp View Drop Down
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Actually I was told by an SWFA employee it was because of the considerable hassle with foreign credit cards.  I can believe that, the small value of foreign orders would probably not offset the financial and organisational hassle, risk and debt.  There are many niche players making money selling to certain overseas countries, SWFA has made a business decision which I don't like, but can understand.
 
The whole US Goverment thing, I can't respect because from what I can find it is an excuse, not a reason.  If you check the US State Dept. export lists you will find that Australia, along with Canada and the UK have different export controls to much of the remainder of the world.  But hey - don't belive me, check with SWFA http://www.opticstalk.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=4537
 
But please - back to the scope.  You all have access to scopes that I cannot get due to our relatively small market, but I can buy them from your much larger market.  I seek your input into my choice because you can do something I cannot - you can look through or use these scopes, often side by side.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/21/2009 at 08:07
Dshusker View Drop Down
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I have had very good results, in a similar application, using a Bushnell Elite 6500 in 2.5X16X42MM. Although, we rarely get a chance to take shots at 550 yds, I have engaged Boar at 330 yds several times. The optics are clear with good contrast and the POI holds well through all levels of magnification. I have learned to really appreciate the hydrophobic Rainguard coating in the wet climate we hunt in. You can pick up the scope for less than $550 USD. A really great value!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/21/2009 at 10:08
hunter12345 View Drop Down
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Sorry that SWFA has a strict policy.Check out the Bushnell Elite series an excellent choice.Rainguard has helped in wet hunting conditions.The Firefly reticle is another option also,I like the thick reticle which helps in low light.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/21/2009 at 10:12
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i thought the austrailian govt took all the guns away from it citizens?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/21/2009 at 10:59
257WM_CDL-SF View Drop Down
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id take a good look at the Sightron Big Sky
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/21/2009 at 11:18
hunter12345 View Drop Down
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257WM_CDL-SF View Drop Down hows your scope in low light?

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/21/2009 at 11:25
257WM_CDL-SF View Drop Down
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it is good I can see the center dot about a hour after sunset
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/21/2009 at 11:26
BoDaggitt View Drop Down
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Uh oh, he comes the Sightron plug(s)
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/21/2009 at 14:41
hunter12345 View Drop Down
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Bow
Originally posted by BoDaggitt BoDaggitt wrote:

Uh oh, he comes the Sightron plug(s)
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/21/2009 at 18:57
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ExcellentBushnell
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/21/2009 at 20:58
adamjp View Drop Down
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Australians can legally own any rifle that is not self-loading (so BAR, Rem7600, Ruger 10/22 and Mini14 are out).  Some states deny the use of rifles like the Remington 7615 on the grounds that it uses a military (M16) magazine which is a prohibited item.
Under special permission a person with genuine reason can own a self-loading rifle.
Silencers are not legal.
Pump and self-loading shotguns are not permitted, except under special permission.
Handguns are for security industry or target use ONLY.  Handguns are very controlled and must have a barrel longer than a minimum length.  Calibre (power) controls also exist.
Automatic weapons have been banned for a very long time, and only non-functional versions may be owned under special permission by accredited collectors.
 
Back to the Scopes - I have not yet looked through a 6500, but with many reports on this site suggesting that it has glass quality equivalent to the 4200 series, it's not really a consideration when you think that the 6.5 range will reduce performance at twilight.  Besides which, Bushnell don't make a 3-12.  I'll consider it (happily) if someone can say that twilight performance is good.
 
I must confess to really liking the Meopta line, particularly with the 4B reticle.  My Meopta 6x42 is good, but the short eye-relief and annoying lens flare at night under a light has me concerned (perhaps the positioning of the objective so close to the front of the tube does this?).
 
The Sightron Big Sky interests me as others on this forum have said good things about them, but I can't look at one.  Their Australia distributor is not pushing the brand very hard and I've yet to see one in a gunshop.
 
How does the 3-12 Big Sky compare to the 3-12 Nikon?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/21/2009 at 21:44
COLOelkman View Drop Down
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I bought a 3x12 Nikon Monarch last year and did compare it to the Zeiss Conquest.  My eyes said get the Zeiss but my wallet spoke louder.  Not dissappointed in the Nikon but I thought the Zeiss was far and away sharper.  From reading a lot of posts, I think Zeiss is a better scope so you have to decide what's more important for what you're needing it for. I'm now looking again for a scope for another gun and will likely get the Zeiss just to be different if nothing else.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/21/2009 at 21:51
adamjp View Drop Down
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Thanks that's the kind of comparitive input I'm looking for.
 
I know that comparing a $500 scope with a $1200 scope is not fair.  But the difference between the low and high end is simply saving longer and keeping the 'interim' scope on longer.
 
BTW the Interim scope is a Tasco Sniper scope made in the 1990's for UK MoD contract.  6x44 with the Nato reticle and a 26mm tube.  Clear, bright, good.  I think they morphed into the Tasco SS, which sort of become the Super Sniper series.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/21/2009 at 21:59
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PM inbound, where in Ozzyland are you?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/22/2009 at 00:21
adamjp View Drop Down
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Just outside the national capital - Canberra.
 
Approximately 35d 23' S, 149d 12' E.  At least within the grid square.
 
Access to deer, pigs, goats, foxes and rabbits within 40 minutes drive from home.  1000m range is 25 minutes away.
 
Bloody kangaroos within walking distance of home.  The wife's car hit one 4 weeks back, 3 weeks in the panel shop and $12k worth of damage to a 5mth old car (thankyou to insurance) - she'd have kicked it to death if it wasn't killed in the acccident.  Roos are road dumber than deer.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/22/2009 at 01:42
adamjp View Drop Down
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I just got a price from our local distributor of Sightron scopes.....the 3-12x42HHR is $1184 AUD plus postage to my door.Shocked
 
US prices are $840 AUD locally delivered to my door for exactly the same scope.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/22/2009 at 01:47
adamjp View Drop Down
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Originally posted by adamjp adamjp wrote:

I just got a price from our local distributor of Sightron scopes.....the 3-12x42HHR is $1184 AUD plus postage to my door.Shocked
 
US prices are $840 AUD locally delivered to my door for exactly the same scope.
I'm happy and keen to support my local industry, but there is profit and PROFIT.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/22/2009 at 20:36
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I spent almost 6 months down in your part of the pond. Started out in Brisbane and worked our way around to Perth, with stops in New Castle, Port Kimbla, Sydney and Adelaide. Not quite in that order but it's been a while.  Great place to visit, Great people, but your tax system is bonkers mate!!!   LOL    
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/23/2009 at 10:48
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I'd suggest a Kahles 3-9 or 3-10 Multizero.  They are cheaper than the 4-12, and the field of view is not that much smaller (in my opinion) for the 4-12.  I have a 3-9 on my 270 WSM and I think it will do fine out to that distance.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/25/2009 at 04:19
adamjp View Drop Down
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Originally posted by brodeur272 brodeur272 wrote:

I'd suggest a Kahles 3-9 or 3-10 Multizero.  They are cheaper than the 4-12, and the field of view is not that much smaller (in my opinion) for the 4-12.  I have a 3-9 on my 270 WSM and I think it will do fine out to that distance.
Thanks, I'll keep it in mind.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/25/2009 at 10:05
helo18 View Drop Down
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If you are going to be shooting at dusk and night, have you thought about a illuminated reticle?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/25/2009 at 10:37
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Quote(Actually I was told by an SWFA employee it was because of the considerable hassle with foreign credit cards. )quote
 
 
International postal money orders.???
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/25/2009 at 22:17
COLOelkman View Drop Down
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Getting back to the original scope question, I just compared a 3-12 x42 Nikon Monarch to a 3.5-10 x 44 Zeiss as I'm also looking for a similar range of scope.  I actually thought the Nikon looked better to me (both brighter and sharper).  Last year it seemed like the Zeiss was better.  Go figure?  At any rate since the Zeiss is about $150 more, I'd certainly buy the Nikon which I am going to.  I do admit that I didn't have any sophisticated testing other than to just adjust each focus, then see which one looked best (mounted together).  Thus, I change my earlier vote from Zeiss to Nikon also any difference was considered negligable to my eyes. 
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