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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/13/2008 at 16:30
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First I'll say that I am sorry for the extensive questions on scopes.  I'm just trying to choose the right scope for my gun as the rifle season draws near.  I have a good idea of what I want but am considering anything and everthing at the moment.  I really appreciate all the honest input, it has really helped me and I now know that if I have a problem in the furture, this is the best place to come.
 
So, I would just like to know if any of you guys out there think a 30mm tube is needed for a 7 mag. in Northern MI for whitetail hunting.  I have heard that they are great in any situation and once you get one it will be hard to go back to the 1".  The problem is that the gun that I have is about $600 and I dont see the point in getting a scope over $600 for that gun (might as well save up for the next). 
 
So, am I going to be able to find a nice quality reasonable 30mm scope for $600 and under??
If so what scope(s)???
 
i have been looking at the Sightron SIII eventhough it is more around $850 (probably wont spend that kind of money)
 
thanks
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The main advantage of a 30mm tubed scope is just for W/E adjustments.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/13/2008 at 16:50
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/13/2008 at 17:03
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Originally posted by SNIPE SNIPE wrote:

First I'll say that I am sorry for the extensive questions on scopes.  I'm just trying to choose the right scope for my gun as the rifle season draws near.  I have a good idea of what I want but am considering anything and everthing at the moment.  I really appreciate all the honest input, it has really helped me and I now know that if I have a problem in the furture, this is the best place to come.
 
So, I would just like to know if any of you guys out there think a 30mm tube is needed for a 7 mag. in Northern MI for whitetail hunting.  I have heard that they are great in any situation and once you get one it will be hard to go back to the 1".  The problem is that the gun that I have is about $600 and I dont see the point in getting a scope over $600 for that gun (might as well save up for the next). 
 
So, am I going to be able to find a nice quality reasonable 30mm scope for $600 and under??
If so what scope(s)???
 
i have been looking at the Sightron SIII eventhough it is more around $850 (probably wont spend that kind of money)
 
thanks
......................The only thing to be gained by a 30mm tubed scope is some increased range for sight adjustment. Other than that, a 30mm offers no advantage over a 1" tube.
 
Under any hunting situation and given the same variable, having a 30mm vs a 1" tube will not offer any advantage in terms of success or failure on a hunt!
 
You will needlessly pay more for a 30mm.
 
If you have the same quality optics in either the 30mm or the 1" tube, there is no advantage by the 30mm in any hunting situation.
 
There are numerous 1" scopes for $600 or less on this site, that would be ideal for a 7mm mag that offer great optics as well. 
 
When you get into the 30mm scopes from the $1000 to $2000 range, then there are noticeable optical advantages. But you certainly pay a much higher price for the marginal gains in optics.
 
But at $600 or less for a 30mm vs the 1"? No optical advantage for the 30mm given the same optics.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/13/2008 at 18:01
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no better lighting with 30mm?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/13/2008 at 18:12
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Check the Meopta line of scopes.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/13/2008 at 18:12
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Originally posted by SNIPE SNIPE wrote:

no better lighting with 30mm?
...............NO!........ The scope tube`s diameter has nothing to do with more light gathering. However, a larger objective will let in a little more light, but only marginally.
 
I have never owned a 30mm tubed scope, but have looked through quite a variety of them. The only thing to be gained is the adjustment range.
 
Given the same optics and objective diameter, if someone tells you that their 30mm tubed scope will out-perform a 1" er, they don`t know what they`re talking about.
 
In some cases, biased favoritism will overcome the facts.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/13/2008 at 18:52
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The 30mm tube is also stiffer and stronger, along with the adjustment range increase.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/13/2008 at 19:05
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And they look better with objectives 40mm and bigger.  IMO
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/13/2008 at 19:06
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Originally posted by supertool73 supertool73 wrote:

And they look better with objectives 40mm and bigger.  IMO


Thunbs%20Up
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/13/2008 at 19:14
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Ditto
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/13/2008 at 19:16
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Originally posted by tahqua tahqua wrote:

The 30mm tube is also stiffer and stronger, along with the adjustment range increase.
 
He lives!! Excellent
PM inbound, Doug.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/13/2008 at 19:58
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Originally posted by tahqua tahqua wrote:

The 30mm tube is also stiffer and stronger, along with the adjustment range increase.
.....................Stiffer and stronger also comes with added weight. It would take alot or certainly under very ab-normal circumstances, to really thrash or damage a 1" tubed scope. If a 1" tubed scope could be damaged through minimal abuse, that`s another matter, where the 30mm would have the durability advantage. 
 
I would not buy a 30 mm strictly for the reasons of stiffness or strength, when a 1" tubed scope, is more than strong enough, even under very abusive or ab-normal conditons.
 
Meoptas for example have great glass and are extremely well built.... But looking at the Meopta specs, you see weights from 17-18 oz up to 22-23 oz. depending on the scope, with specs that list shorter eye relief as well.
 
I suppose if one likes the added weight to lug around, when every ounce makes a physical difference over a long or several day hunt, then go for it! The 1" ers clearly have the weight reduction advantage. Also, I wonder how many shooters go out and buy light weight rifles and then put heavier 30mm scopes on? Kinda defeats the purpose of a lighter weight rifle in the first place!!
 
If one can really thrash a 1"er, one could also assume that it wouldn`t be too good for the 30mm tube either.
 
Other than more W/E adjustment range, the 30mm has no realistic advantage.
 
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/13/2008 at 20:04
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Good optics always weigh more Squeeze.  There is a huge differnce in optical quality between a Leupold VX3 or a 4200 or a Nikon compared to a Meostar.

I lugged around a Meotpa for 3 days this elk hunt and the extra 4 or 5 oz made no difference. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/13/2008 at 20:17
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Originally posted by supertool73 supertool73 wrote:

Good optics always weigh more Squeeze.  There is a huge differnce in optical quality between a Leupold VX3 or a 4200 or a Nikon compared to a Meostar.

I lugged around a Meotpa for 3 days this elk hunt and the extra 4 or 5 oz made no difference. 
..............Not necessarily. I disagree. Depends on the brand.... Certain Zeiss Conquests have 1" tubes........Certain Swaros have  1" tubes as well.............You don`t necessarily need a 30mm tube to gain the better optics.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/13/2008 at 20:26
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Originally posted by Big Squeeze Big Squeeze wrote:

Originally posted by supertool73 supertool73 wrote:

Good optics always weigh more Squeeze.  There is a huge differnce in optical quality between a Leupold VX3 or a 4200 or a Nikon compared to a Meostar.

I lugged around a Meotpa for 3 days this elk hunt and the extra 4 or 5 oz made no difference. 
..............Not necessarily. I disagree. Depends on the brand.... Certain Zeiss Conquests have 1" tubes........Certain Swaros have  1" tubes as well.............You don`t necessarily need a 30mm tube to gain the better optics.
..........unless of course, one is willing to pay alot more, like from $1500 to above $2k for the best 30mm`s. Then the 30`s have the advantage in optics.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/13/2008 at 20:30
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Ya, I agree with you and should have clarified better. 

I was referring to optical quality (your comment of Meopta's being heavy) not necessarily tube size.  Good optics almost always weigh more. 

In a lot of cases 30mm have better optical quality just based on the fact they use European glass.  I think the little extra weight is worth the better optics. 

Just last Saturday I was sitting on a rock before it was light for the elk hunt.  I was blowing my bugle and had a herd of elk coming into me.  It was 10 min to 7am it is was not completely light yet.  I saw some elk and put up my Meopta binos and could make out two spike bulls.  I pulled up my rifle with a 3-9x 4200 and I could no longer make out which ones were the spike bulls.  I had to pull up my bino's again and count which ones they were before I could shoot. 

So in that case I would have loved the extra 5 oz for a better quality scope of some European manufacture. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/13/2008 at 20:47
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Originally posted by supertool73 supertool73 wrote:

Ya, I agree with you and should have clarified better. 

I was referring to optical quality (your comment of Meopta's being heavy) not necessarily tube size.  Good optics almost always weigh more. 

In a lot of cases 30mm have better optical quality just based on the fact they use European glass.  I think the little extra weight is worth the better optics. 

Just last Saturday I was sitting on a rock before it was light for the elk hunt.  I was blowing my bugle and had a herd of elk coming into me.  It was 10 min to 7am it is was not completely light yet.  I saw some elk and put up my Meopta binos and could make out two spike bulls.  I pulled up my rifle with a 3-9x 4200 and I could no longer make out which ones were the spike bulls.  I had to pull up my bino's again and count which ones they were before I could shoot. 

So in that case I would have loved the extra 5 oz for a better quality scope of some European manufacture. 
..................Better trade in your 4200 for a Meopta then!............Laugh
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/13/2008 at 20:48
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Originally posted by supertool73 supertool73 wrote:

Ya, I agree with you and should have clarified better. 

I was referring to optical quality (your comment of Meopta's being heavy) not necessarily tube size.  Good optics almost always weigh more. 

In a lot of cases 30mm have better optical quality just based on the fact they use European glass.  I think the little extra weight is worth the better optics. 

Just last Saturday I was sitting on a rock before it was light for the elk hunt.  I was blowing my bugle and had a herd of elk coming into me.  It was 10 min to 7am it is was not completely light yet.  I saw some elk and put up my Meopta binos and could make out two spike bulls.  I pulled up my rifle with a 3-9x 4200 and I could no longer make out which ones were the spike bulls.  I had to pull up my bino's again and count which ones they were before I could shoot. 

So in that case I would have loved the extra 5 oz for a better quality scope of some European manufacture. 


That is the case for me regarding the top end Euro scopes. I need to be able to shoot what I find in my Zeiss 7x42 binoculars. The $600 limit posted will not make it to that level of glass. I use Monarch, 4200, Signature and V3 glass. If you are spending $600 you will be fine with these scopes. They will not pick up what my binoculars do, though.
BTW, since the OP hunts MI and uses a 7mag, here is my M700 KS with a 2.2-9x42 30mm Kahles. It has a Remington Custom Shop Kevlar stock and is easy to carry all day long. I use it in the U.P. of Michigan and it has been on all my western hunts.






Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/13/2008 at 20:54
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Originally posted by Big Squeeze Big Squeeze wrote:

Originally posted by supertool73 supertool73 wrote:

Ya, I agree with you and should have clarified better. 

I was referring to optical quality (your comment of Meopta's being heavy) not necessarily tube size.  Good optics almost always weigh more. 

In a lot of cases 30mm have better optical quality just based on the fact they use European glass.  I think the little extra weight is worth the better optics. 

Just last Saturday I was sitting on a rock before it was light for the elk hunt.  I was blowing my bugle and had a herd of elk coming into me.  It was 10 min to 7am it is was not completely light yet.  I saw some elk and put up my Meopta binos and could make out two spike bulls.  I pulled up my rifle with a 3-9x 4200 and I could no longer make out which ones were the spike bulls.  I had to pull up my bino's again and count which ones they were before I could shoot. 

So in that case I would have loved the extra 5 oz for a better quality scope of some European manufacture. 
..................Better trade in your 4200 for a Meopta then!............Laugh


I love how you always mock everyone about these nicer scopes.  I bet you have never had and hunted with one and really have no idea the difference they can make at times like this. 

 You never hear people say "I wish I would have spent a little less."  But you always hear people say "I wish I would have spent a little more."  There is a reason some scope cost more and yes they do make a big difference during low light times.   
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/13/2008 at 20:58
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Looks good there!......................On all the elk hunts I`ve done in the past, my opportunity for kills came after the sun came up and before the sun went down. There are always low lite opportunties which present themselves, where a good low lite scope will have the advantage...........I prefer to wait for better light opportunities as even my PH guides have suggested.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/13/2008 at 21:04
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Well sometimes the only chance you get is during the low light.  If you have a scope that you can make out the animal just fine then there is not reason not to shoot it. 

I agree with the evening shooting just in case you only wound the animal and have to chase it, but in the morning there is no reason not to if you can make out the animal.  In those cases a nice 30mm Zeiss or Swaro or Kahles Meostar would make the difference.
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i havent ever dealt with a 30mm tube, but i do know that reguardless of the tube size that high quality glass will weigh more than cheapo chinese crap does, 1" or 30mm it doesnt matter, i dont know if 30mm will ever take over for 1" but you may see more of a trend of people going to that 30mm option.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/13/2008 at 21:06
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Originally posted by supertool73 supertool73 wrote:

Originally posted by Big Squeeze Big Squeeze wrote:

Originally posted by supertool73 supertool73 wrote:

Ya, I agree with you and should have clarified better. 

I was referring to optical quality (your comment of Meopta's being heavy) not necessarily tube size.  Good optics almost always weigh more. 

In a lot of cases 30mm have better optical quality just based on the fact they use European glass.  I think the little extra weight is worth the better optics. 

Just last Saturday I was sitting on a rock before it was light for the elk hunt.  I was blowing my bugle and had a herd of elk coming into me.  It was 10 min to 7am it is was not completely light yet.  I saw some elk and put up my Meopta binos and could make out two spike bulls.  I pulled up my rifle with a 3-9x 4200 and I could no longer make out which ones were the spike bulls.  I had to pull up my bino's again and count which ones they were before I could shoot. 

So in that case I would have loved the extra 5 oz for a better quality scope of some European manufacture. 
..................Better trade in your 4200 for a Meopta then!............Laugh


I love how you always mock everyone about these nicer scopes.  I bet you have never had and hunted with one and really have no idea the difference they can make at times like this. 

 You never hear people say "I wish I would have spent a little less."  But you always hear people say "I wish I would have spent a little more."  There is a reason some scope cost more and yes they do make a big difference during low light times.   
........................Excuse me? Mocking? Always mocking everyone with higher priced or nicer scopes?? I don`t think so sir! I have never mocked anyone!! That is your wrong headed and knee jerk assessment!.......You can`t take a joke when I stated to trade in your 4200?............Yes I have hunted with friends who own them and I know how exactly they are!! 
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Originally posted by SNIPE SNIPE wrote:

 
So, am I going to be able to find a nice quality reasonable 30mm scope for $600 and under??
If so what scope(s)???
 
 
IMO, you don't need 30mm and you'll hard pressed to beat these deals from the samplelist.com
 
4956 Kahles 3.5-10x50 American Hunter Matte finish, one inch tube, plex reticle, fast focus eye piece, ring marks. $806.00 $599.95
4623 Swarovski 3-9x36 American Light Weight 52040, Matte finish, one inch tube, plex reticle, fast focus eye piece, resettable windage & elevation, light ring marks. $887.00 $649.95
9145 Zeiss 4.5-14x44 Conquest 5214309920, Matte finish, Z-plex reticle, 1" tube, side focus, fast focus eye piece, light ring marks $875.00 $599.95
9280 Zeiss 4.5-14x50 Conquest 5214909920, Matte finish, Z-Plex reticle, 1" tube, target knobs, side focus, fast focus eye piece, ring marks $975.00 $629.95
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