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308 to 260 - Did I do a bad thing?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/01/2015 at 21:55
JLud View Drop Down
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Newer to reloading...bought a kit, this and that, oh need this too...think I drove up the UPS stock price and still am.  Discovered calibers I never wanted to pay ammo prices for are now just some dies and bullets away.

Anyway, ordered a Tikka CTR in 260 remington.  I have a good amount of 308 brass I saved up over the years, and had some RL 15 so ordered some 123 gr Hornady Amaxs to start things out.  

Long story short, I bought a Redding 3 die set so I can neck once fired, but basically I just ran the 308 brass (30 rounds worth is all) into the FL 260.  It actually went pretty smooth, wasnt hard at all.  I have heard bad things about the "donut".  My rifle is in this week and ill pick it up, so I guess ill find out if these chamber or not, but is there any safety concern at all with what I have done?

Necks measure .297 or under by a few thou, so I believe I am in spec.  Im not sure if anything here is the "donut" so I wanted to drop some pics and get some opinions.  Most of this is cheap brass until some better stuff arrives, so if the answer is scrap it not a big loss, more worried about the bullets and the piece o crap puller i have.

I just shot my first hundred or so 308 and 223 reloads this weekend and they all went bang in a good way, and damned if I wont say some great results that left me to get more UPS trucks in the driveway.








Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/02/2015 at 09:59
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I owned and ran a 260 for awhile, mine was exceedingly accurate, I liked that gun - but it didn't hit hard enough for my purposes.

I recall the donuts but have flushed all the details pertaining.  If you decide to get manufactured ammo, look at Southwest Ammo, their stuff isn't cheap, but the components are top notch.

http://www.southwestammunition.com/category_s/146.htm


Finally, Tikka, great choice, awesome rifles for the money, usually quite accurate right out of the box.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/02/2015 at 10:14
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I would just double check the o.a.l. and make sure they chamber up nicely.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/02/2015 at 11:26
JLud View Drop Down
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Ok so thoughts are if they chamber, should be ok? Oal was dead on at the max as well. No destruction or injury likely? You should have seen me fire off my first few loads....glasses on, back as far as I could get and tap the trigger half expecting a bad boom.

Thanks for the feedback. Do like my tikkas may get another before too long.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/02/2015 at 19:42
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The donut everyone is referring to is a protrusion inside the neck at the neck/shoulder junction

The way you check is to take a bullet before sizing and insert it down the neck.  If it stops at the neck/shoulder junction then you have a donut, if it slides past you don't.

The best way to check is to use a set of pin gauges and you can check the entire neck length

The only way to fix a donut is to inside ream

Your seater will easily push the bullet past a donut.  Consistency and accuracy may suffer from the "rear" crimp though







Edited by sakomato - March/02/2015 at 19:47
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/02/2015 at 20:43
JLud View Drop Down
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Wow very good information, thank you!  Unfortunately, i just ran the 308 through so the only time I could put a bullet in would be after its sized.

So would it be appropriate to say that if I can seat it to proper length that I am good to go?  If I go fire these, should i expect any complications provide they chamber fine?

I see another UPS truck delivering something else I discovered I need now...pin gauges.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/02/2015 at 20:50
JLud View Drop Down
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where does one get a set like you have in your picture please?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/02/2015 at 21:30
sakomato View Drop Down
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Originally posted by JLud JLud wrote:

where does one get a set like you have in your picture please?

http://www.cdcotools.com/

click on measuring tools then gauge blocks and pin gauges

you probably want the set from .251 to .500

was $55.00 when I bought my set


UPS delivers Big Grin

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/02/2015 at 22:06
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One thing to add to Bob's excellent explanation...

You did nothing wrong by necking down .308 to .260. The only thing I would have done differently is to neck down only as much of the neck as required so that your bolt barely closes, creating a "false shoulder" and zero headspace. That way, when you fireform, you now have min headspace brass specifically for your chamber and sharply defined shoulder. This only helps accuracy. The dreaded donut forms due to brass flow as the case is being worked, even through normal repeated firing and FL sizing without resizing the neck. It's usually more prevalent with necking up than necking down, though. Some case designs are more likely to form the donut than others depending on shoulder angle.

Basically, if you reload, it's going to eventually happen and there's not much you can do about it. Once the donut becomes prominent, you can either cut it away with a reamer, or if you don't want to fool with it, pitch the brass and start over with new brass. Either way, it's easy to detect, easy to remove, and not worth worrying about.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/06/2015 at 18:08
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Finally picked up the rifle.....tried chambering these....about 50 percent wont close. Think I'm gonna try to save the bullets and powder and not fire any of these. Or think ok to Fire ones that fit?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/06/2015 at 20:01
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So this is a new rifle and you do not know the chamber dimensions

There are other problems that can occur with downsized brass from a 308

Your 260 chamber could have a tighter neck than your .297" outside diameter downsized and loaded brass.  This WOULD BE a problem and the loads would not be safe to shoot.  IOW the neck brass has to expand to release the bullet

The neck brass could already be considered to be fairly thick

.297"-.264"=.033"/2=.0165" average thickness

Normal brass neck thickness range is .012" to .015".  Of course there are some really thick neck measurements, like some WSM and WSSM brass I have heard about.

Your chamber neck COULD measure .298" or .296" or be larger/smaller.  You don't know

If you chamber a round that does not allow the neck brass to expand for the bullet release, pressures can significantly increase

Time for you to invest in one box of factory ammo or actual 260 brass for the first firing.  After firing the first rounds, either factory or 260 brass, you can measure the outside diameter of the neck before sizing to get your chamber neck dimension

If your brass is too thick (.297") you will have to outside neck turn the brass thinner and then load.

A donut could exacerbate your situation


Do you have an outside neck turner, UPS could deliver one  Wink




Edited by sakomato - March/06/2015 at 20:10
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/06/2015 at 22:11
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Was explaining this to my wife just now in bed, she said, "you should not put a donut in your gun!" Respond accordingly.


Carry on.


Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/07/2015 at 00:59
sakomato View Drop Down
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Wise investment IMO

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/1311190025/norma-reloading-brass-260-remington?cm_vc=ProductFinding

BTW - RL17 should be your huckleberry, much different than RL15


RC you should have mentioned how you can put a donut on the outside of a gun

Could have brought up some REAL interesting conversation!  Wink

Depending upon how kinky y'all are Cencored



Edited by sakomato - March/07/2015 at 01:12
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/07/2015 at 05:06
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/07/2015 at 07:04
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RC, Be sure to explain to her that it it is safer to increase the neck size gradually. This can be acheaved with multiple coats of lip gloss applied over time, so that each coat has time to sufficiently harden between coats. Big Smile
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/07/2015 at 08:26
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Yes I loaded rounds in eager anticipation of the rifles arrival. Thanks for all the good input. I decided last night to take all the rounds apart, trashed the brass, ended up trashing most of bullets but saved a few and some powder. Figured much safer and cheaper that way...and yep ordering brass as we speak.

On the good side that tikka ctr has a great balance! Had some 30 mm rings laying around and a SS fixed six.
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