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30-06 shoulder dimples

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/11/2010 at 19:47
Urimaginaryfrnd View Drop Down
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For some odd reason I only have this issue with 30-06. When I resize 30-06 brass the lube creates dimples on the case shoulder.   I've been using Horniday Unique lube in the little plastic butter container, but it did this with the old RCBS lube pad also. I just touch the lube and roll the middle of the case around in my fingers not even really putting lube on the neck or shoulder and even though I clean the die out I almost always get this dimple effect on the shoulder.  The dies are RCBS   SB dies that are about 35+ yrs old.  I load for ..375 H&H, 300WM  300WSM, .308 & .223 as well as some straight wall cartirdges but I only have this issue with the 30-06 brass.  Brass is various manufacturers and about the same age as the dies if not older.  Suggestions?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/11/2010 at 21:43
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Clean the inside of the die and use Hornady One Shot spray on the cases going foward.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/11/2010 at 21:48
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Originally posted by Urimaginaryfrnd Urimaginaryfrnd wrote:

For some odd reason I only have this issue with 30-06. When I resize 30-06 brass the lube creates dimples on the case shoulder.   I've been using Horniday Unique lube in the little plastic butter container, but it did this with the old RCBS lube pad also. I just touch the lube and roll the middle of the case around in my fingers not even really putting lube on the neck or shoulder and even though I clean the die out I almost always get this dimple effect on the shoulder.  The dies are RCBS   SB dies that are about 35+ yrs old.  I load for ..375 H&H, 300WM  300WSM, .308 & .223 as well as some straight wall cartirdges but I only have this issue with the 30-06 brass.  Brass is various manufacturers and about the same age as the dies if not older.  Suggestions?
 
I'm going to guess that it may have something to do with the fact that they're SB dies.
 My far-out theory is that the bottom end of the small base die is sealing in an air pocket around the shoulder/ upper case body as it contacts the lower body of the case about the same time as the neck is sealing things in at the top of the case just as you begin raising the case into full contact with the die.  
 As you continue to raise the ram, the air can't escape and decides to dimple the case at around xxxx(?) PSI.
 I don't know for certain, but I wouldn't be terribly surprised if air alone would do this, without  lube (excess or otherwise) even entering into the equation... although air will compress to some degree and lube won't.
 
Edited to add the parts in bold red, for a better clarification of what may be happening.


Edited by RONK - January/12/2010 at 06:31
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/12/2010 at 04:53
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I had a similiar problem some years ago. I think the problem could be case length. 
Try turning your die up a 1/4 turn. In other words do not do a 100% resizing, but say 98%.
Also check your case length and cut them back to size.
 
Do you do outside neck turn? This may also be an area to investigate. Maybe brass has flowed forward and your case necks are thicker then normal?
 
I was using Lee full length dies at the time.
 
Lately I only neck size and have no such problems.


Edited by 8shots - January/12/2010 at 04:55
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/12/2010 at 11:45
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What those guys said; they basically covered it.  It pretty much has to be one of the issues mentioned above.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/12/2010 at 14:52
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Make sure the dies are clean first then if it still presist let the lube dry for a day then try still a problem, new die time, and may I suggest Lee.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/12/2010 at 19:39
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I did check case length and trimmed them they were too long but I'm still thinking it is time to go with different dies all my other dies are FL and much newer.  I have some of the one shot lube here and can try that as well but I think RONK is onto something.  I dont turn the necks on anything yet.   Thanks Guys
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/12/2010 at 19:56
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dies are made with pin hole pressure reliefs, yours are plugged with old lube-- clean them.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/12/2010 at 20:49
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 Good point, Dale. 
 But not all dies were/are made with relief holes.
 Not sure about 35 year-old RCBS dies.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/13/2010 at 02:04
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Good point Dale.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/13/2010 at 07:06
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 I was having the same issues with 243 so I called RCBS and they helped me out.
 I was using just a tad to much lubricant and plugged up the vent hole. I cleaned out the die and then only put a little lub on the neck and shoulder(leave the body dry). Problem solved, now I pay closer attention to my lubricating of the cases, when I see a little drop of lub on the shoulder it is time to wipe out the die because it seems to gather in one spot and cause the dimple.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/13/2010 at 08:24
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I gotta give a pat on the back to you guys. 
 
I currently don't reload but would like to in the not too far off future  (when life slows down enough to spend more time shooting and less time working)... In any case, I read everything I can on these threads when it comes to reloading.  I am impressed at the level of knowledge and skill that many of you have and to the generousity you share information.  The experiences you share are invaluable.  Please keep on writing your experiences and helping to solve the issues.  Some of us are paying attention, learning and appreciating what you have to say.
 
When it comes time for me to take the plunge and invest the money.  I will clearly take the advice of the members of this site.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/13/2010 at 08:28
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the guys who know the most have screwed up the most and lived to tell about it.Bucky
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/13/2010 at 08:53
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Originally posted by pyro6999 pyro6999 wrote:

the guys who know the most have screwed up the most and lived to tell about it.Bucky
 
Always heed the advice of the 9 fingered carpenter......
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/13/2010 at 08:58
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or the one eyed reloader
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/13/2010 at 09:07
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Note to self: Do not do that again!!!!!
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/13/2010 at 09:08
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yea--
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/13/2010 at 09:11
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do tell dale what did you do?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/13/2010 at 21:08
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Shoulder lube dents are caused by excess lube. 
 
Clean the die, lube the lower part of the cases well and only lightly lube the upper part.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/14/2010 at 01:31
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Originally posted by Crosswire Crosswire wrote:

Shoulder lube dents are caused by excess lube. 
 
Clean the die, lube the lower part of the cases well and only lightly lube the upper part.
That is exactly what I have been doing - its something else. Note it is specific to only this set of dies in this caliber - its really quite odd as I have no problem what so ever with.
.375 H&H, 300 WM, 300 WSM. .458.Win, 25-06, .308, .223, 45-70, 44M, .357/.38, .45acp ---------------Only the Cencored  30-06 causes me problems.
I'm thinking its time for a different set of dies, or to just load virgin brass.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/14/2010 at 02:00
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Have you tried screwing the die out a 1/4 turn or so?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/14/2010 at 05:36
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 Almost sounds like there is a spec of dirt or something stuck in the die. Take it apart spray it with brake cleaner and if possible blow it out with an air gun. If that does not clean it out enough send it out to RCBS they will probably send you a new one under warranty. CS is just like SWFA'S.
 
 
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/14/2010 at 05:48
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I had a similiar problem. It is not dirt, clogged holes etc. I even considered taking my die to an egineer to have four bigger lube "squishy out holes" drilled.
I had cleaned, degreased, opened holes, and still the problem.
I was also loading for a friend. Strangely it was mostly my cases that dented. (300 H&H). I did have case separation and headspace problems at the time. The problem seems to be somewhere with case or neck length.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/15/2010 at 00:40
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Neck length is a contribuiting factor and I think the fact that they dies are SB rather than FL dies is also a factor.  Ive tried several things, dam near everything but asking, and am finally willing to admit the dies could be a problem requiring replacement, after all I've using them since 1976. Whistling
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/15/2010 at 02:06
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Something else to consider: Maybe you have a rifle chamber problem, such as headspace problem, which may change your case dimensions. Maybe the slope of the shoulder has changed?
Can you get cases fired from a different rifle to check?
 
Hate that you buy a new die and still have the problem.
 
But yes, that die owes you nothing. Maybe just its way of telling you its ready for retirement. Allthough my brand new die gave me the dimples, so age it may not be. 
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