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30-06 Question?

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I was wondering what I should site my 30-06 in at. It is a browing abolt with 3-9x50 Zeiss conquest.  Going to Saskatchewan in November on a whitetail hunt, and shots are supposed to be around 100-125 yards from the blind, but I would like to be comfortable out to 300 yards - just in case. Any thoughts as to what I should site it in at. I was thinking zero at 150 yards - making it 1-inch hight at 100, 1 - inch low at 200 and 4 inch low at 300. Does that sound right? all help appreicated. Thanks
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/04/2009 at 12:51
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Personally, all my deer hunting rifles are zeroed in at 200 yards including my 30.06.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/04/2009 at 12:51
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Who's ammo and what grain bullet?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/04/2009 at 13:02
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Set mine at 180m (200yards) as well.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/04/2009 at 13:02
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I would go with a 165gr ballistic tip @ 2.5 inches high at 100 yards giving you a point blank range of just under 280 yards.


Added : adjusted for 4500ft elevation.


Edited by Steelbenz - May/04/2009 at 13:03
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/04/2009 at 15:02
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Currently still trying deciding on brand, weight, and style of bullet. I was thinking either winchester supreme elite XP3  180grain (my father in law shoots these) or Federal Nosler Partition 180 grain (my Dad shoots these).  But I am definetly open to any ideas - thanks again for yalls help.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/04/2009 at 15:09
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X = 180 Y = 90 (X+Pyro)+(Y-Pyro) = ?

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Personally, I'd shoot something that I can push a bit faster, but then again I'm a speed freak too. That's probably why I don't have an '06. If your gun likes the 180 gr. nothing wrong with that. I'd probably shoot a 165, but I like things that are fast, and flat.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/04/2009 at 15:49
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2" high @ 100 yds, either 165gr or 180gr depending on what your rifle likes, bullet design shouldn't matter, as long as its accurate.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/04/2009 at 15:55
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If you use a BattleSightZero (BSZ) of 25 yards you will be 3in high at 100 and about 3.5in low at 300 yards using Winchester 180gr FailSafe (my favorite) and still carrying WAY over enough energy to take anything on the North American continent.  
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/04/2009 at 16:34
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Originally posted by Kickboxer Kickboxer wrote:

If you use a BattleSightZero (BSZ) of 25 yards you will be 3in high at 100 and about 3.5in low at 300 yards using Winchester 180gr FailSafe (my favorite) and still carrying WAY over enough energy to take anything on the North American continent.  
 
Thunbs Up   Good Advice
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/04/2009 at 19:00
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Actually the old 25-yard zero has probably accounted for more high misses than anything except the shooter holding high when it wasn't necessary.

A 25-yard sight-in works pretty well with iron sights and older, low-mounted scopes. It used to work quite well, for instance, when the average scope was 4x mounted as low as possible over the receiver. But with today's typical hunting scope, mounted somewhat higher, it will often result in groups centered 4-6" high at 100 yards--which generally means even higher at 150-200 yards, plenty for a high miss.

I have done a lot of experimenting with close-range sighting and 35 yards is a better close sight-in range with typical scopes and mounts today. In fact if you MUST sight-in only at close range, an inch high at 50 yards is better yet. This normally results in a 2 to 2.5 inch high zero at 100 yards, which is plenty for shooting to 225 to 250 yards with a .30-06. If a 300-yard shot does present itself, then holding on the back-line of a deer will do the trick neatly.

The BattleSight Zero was designed for shooting up ight humans, where a high shot isn't nearly as critical, and a wound just as good (or better) than a killing shot. It isn't the most effective way to sight in a modern hunting rifle.


Edited by John Barsness - May/04/2009 at 19:25
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/04/2009 at 19:08
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John, in most cases that may be true.  However, I have tested the BSZ recently with 30-06 and the ammo mentioned (180gr Winchester Fail Safe) in my post and it works QUITE well, holding within 1/2 inch from 25-100-200-300 yards.  I did not test it further, because I did not see a need.  However, it was tested with a Voere Titan II 30-06 and Zeiss Victory Diavari.  I also tested the 150 Fail Safe ammo and found it to hold equally true.  
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/04/2009 at 19:11
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Originally posted by John Barsness John Barsness wrote:

Actually the old 25-yard zero has probably accounted for more high misses than anything except the shooter holding high when it wasn't necessary.

A 25-yard sight-in works pretty well with iron sights and older, low-mounted scopes. It used to work quite well, for instance, when the average scope was 4x mounted as low as possible over the receiver. But with today's typical hunting scope, mounted somewhat higher, it will often result in groups centered 4-6" high at 100 yards--which generally means even higher at 150-200 yards, plenty for a high miss.

I have done a lot of experimenting with close-range sighting and 35 yards is a better close sight-in range with typical scopes and mounts today. In fact if you MUST sight-in only at close range, an inch high at 50 yards is better yet. This normally results in a 2 to 2.5 inch high zero at 100 yards, which is plenty for shooting to 225 to 250 yards with a .30-06. If a 30-yard shot does present itself, then holding on the back-line of a deer will do the trick neatly.

The BattleSight Zero was designed for shooting up ight humans, where a high shot isn't nearly as critical, and a wound just as good (or better) than a killing shot. It isn't the most effective way to sight in a modern hunting rifle.
 
 I agree completely
 At 25 yards, the angle between line of sight and line of bore is too obtuse to be predictable at the longer ranges with slight variations in scope height from rifle to rifle.
 A very high-mounted scope on an AR for example, zeroed to hit at 25 yds, could be a foot or more high at 100.
  
BTW, I think you meant to say 300 yard, (not 30) in your third-from-last sentence, John?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/04/2009 at 19:20
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I thought he said he had a Browning A-bolt with 3-9 Zeiss Conquest.  An AR MIGHT be applicable, but somehow I don't see it, unless he is going to use 8inch mounts on that Browning.  
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/04/2009 at 19:34
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RONK, thanks for the sharp eye. I corrected the original post.

Kickboxer,

The 25-yard zero CAN work, but it's pretty much chance if it does with any hunting rifle with a modern 3-9x scope mounted high enough to clear the bolt handle, especially a Conquest, which has a large objective bell.
 
Aside from the increased angle caused by scopes that have to be mounted somewhat higher than they use to be, a very minor sight-in arror at 25 will be increased at longer ranges. 1/4" at 25 will be 1" at 100, and 1/2" will be 2" at 100. Double that at 200 yards.
 
Sure, 25 yards is goodf enought to get on paper at 100, but it is a lousy way to zero for 100-300 yard shooting. That should always be confirmed at longer ranges. I know this not just because I sight-in a lot of rifles (generally at least half a dozen a month) but because I used to guide big game hunters here in Montana. Even guys who sighted-in 3" high at 100 regularly shot over big game animals--and with a 25-yard sight-in a modern scoped rifle WILL often end up 4-6" high at 100.
 
In fact, many scoped big game rifles will end up printing 1" low at 25 when sighted-in 2-3" high at 100. This varies with recoil and ring height, but it's not all that unsual.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/04/2009 at 19:36
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Why not just sight in a 100yds, be it dead on, 1" or 2" high. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/04/2009 at 19:41
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Originally posted by lucytuma lucytuma wrote:

Why not just sight in a 100yds, be it dead on, 1" or 2" high. 


Thunbs Up

2" high at 100 yards and be done with it.




Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/04/2009 at 19:44
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Originally posted by Kickboxer Kickboxer wrote:

I thought he said he had a Browning A-bolt with 3-9 Zeiss Conquest.  An AR MIGHT be applicable, but somehow I don't see it, unless he is going to use 8inch mounts on that Browning.  
 
You are correct Dan, he did say that, but he didn't mention the ring height which can be the fly in the ointment, and I gave an AR as and example of an unusually high mount for illustrative purposes.
 25 yards  works for you, but you KNOW it works for you because you had enough common sense to test and verify that all the way out there. Many hunters don't, and my concern was that some could take 25 zero as gospel without accounting for various nuances and how they factor in as distance magnifies error, as John points out.
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/04/2009 at 20:24
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Originally posted by mike650 mike650 wrote:

Originally posted by lucytuma lucytuma wrote:

Why not just sight in a 100yds, be it dead on, 1" or 2" high. 


Thunbs Up

2" high at 100 yards and be done with it.






Thank you.........................
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/04/2009 at 20:24
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 Probably the best method for most hunters is to figure out the size of the target they wish to hit, using a dead-center hold without having to worry about holding over or holding under the animal or vital area thereof.
 
For example, let's say an 8-inch circle for the vitals of a deer. (Conservative)
Zero at the LONGEST possible distance at which the bullet strikes a point half that targets' diameter, (and no more than that), above the point of aim.
 Example-8-inch circle divided  by 2 equals 4 inches.
 Let's say that the computer program for whatever load you are shooting puts that distance at ,oh, lets say 278 yards.
 Zero to hit point of aim at 278 yards, and, without further sight or scope adjustment, keep moving the target further out until the bullet strikes 4 inches below point of aim. Suppose it is 322 yards.
 You will now know that you can hold on the center of a deer all the way out to 322 yards and never will the bullet be more than 4 inches higher or 4 inches lower than the center of it's chest, (if you hold on center) and will still reach the vitals. Point and click.
 The advantage of this method is that it allows you to use your rifles trajectory to it's greatest advantage.
 Conversly, if you zeroed the same rifle, same load to hit point of aim at 100 yards, you will already be 4 inches low at perhaps only 210 yards, compared to 342 yards in the example above. SAME LOAD!
  Pease note that my examples are imagined estimates and probably don't exactly match vary many loads, but the general principal still applies, even though the actual distances may not.
 The desired target size can be altered to any size you wish, and the distances will vary accordingly, of course.
 Also, scope height above bore should be entered into the program for the most accurate results.
 
 Edited to add; My example would have to be a very flat-shooting rig, but again, the concept is what I'm trying to explain, not the example per se...
 


Edited by RONK - May/04/2009 at 20:29
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/05/2009 at 00:28
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Setting 2" high at 100 yds. makes for a very simple hold set for a duplex
scope.  
 
 
As with any zero set pratice is a must to build confidence in your rifle's range with a given bullet wt. This set is reliable with 130 to 165gr. bullets. I have not tried it with heavier loads.


Edited by Sgt. D - May/05/2009 at 00:30
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/05/2009 at 13:42
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The only thing I would add is that such a reticle set-up is only valid at ONE magnification in a scope with a second focal-plane reticle, such as the Conquest. If the magnification is changed, then the aiming points change.

The tip of the bottom post has to subtend just about 6" below the crosshairs at 100 yards to work as an aiming for the standard 180-grain .30-06 load at 400 yards, with the rifle sighted-in 2" high at 100.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/05/2009 at 16:52
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This works for me it is what I have been doing all my life! cant tell ya the years, sorry!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/05/2009 at 18:05
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Originally posted by RONK RONK wrote:

Originally posted by Kickboxer Kickboxer wrote:

I thought he said he had a Browning A-bolt with 3-9 Zeiss Conquest.  An AR MIGHT be applicable, but somehow I don't see it, unless he is going to use 8inch mounts on that Browning.  
 
You are correct Dan, he did say that, but he didn't mention the ring height which can be the fly in the ointment, and I gave an AR as and example of an unusually high mount for illustrative purposes.
 25 yards  works for you, but you KNOW it works for you because you had enough common sense to test and verify that all the way out there. Many hunters don't, and my concern was that some could take 25 zero as gospel without accounting for various nuances and how they factor in as distance magnifies error, as John points out.
 

I never thought of that...

I DO test things for a living... therefore it is second nature to me to explore the full range of variations in any "set up" be it rifles and scopes or bigger, more destructive items.  Sometimes I forget that everyone does not automatically do a step by step assessment of the possibilities.  If my rifle is BSZed, I know what the implications are at any range I might shoot because I've already tested it there.


Edited by Kickboxer - May/05/2009 at 18:28
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/05/2009 at 21:37
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Originally posted by John Barsness John Barsness wrote:

The only thing I would add is that such a reticle set-up is only valid at ONE magnification in a scope with a second focal-plane reticle, such as the Conquest. If the magnification is changed, then the aiming points change.

The tip of the bottom post has to subtend just about 6" below the crosshairs at 100 yards to work as an aiming for the standard 180-grain .30-06 load at 400 yards, with the rifle sighted-in 2" high at 100.

 
Thanks John, I forget to include that point too often. I keep my scopes set on 9/10x just about all the time so this has worked well for me. Now I am making myself learn to use dial in sets and have each chosen distance set dead on point. Requires more disipline and trigger time and the components are some what more expensive but I am having a good time gettin it done. I buying my daughter a Marlin 30-06 and will set it up like I mentioned earler. Everything else is going tactical. Thanks again for your imput. I'd hate to know I caused someone to miss a trophy because of somethig I over looked.
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