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30/375 Ruger?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/10/2010 at 20:09
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I'm seriously thinking about rechambering a 300 win mag into a 30/375 Ruger.  Here is a diagram of each
 
and here is the reamer you can rent from 4D
 
The 300 win mag has a case capacity of 87 gr and the 30/375 Ruger is 93.6 gr.
 
My goal is to shoot a 200 gr Accubond at an honest 3000 fps.  Very hard to do with a 300 win mag and keep the primer pockets in your brass.  Also do not want to have a muzzle brake which I would have to have with a 300RUM which has a case capacity of 110 grs (too much).
 
The reamer will come very close to cleaning up the chamber completely but it will have to be set back a thread or two because of the distance to the shoulder/neck differences.  No refinishing of the action or barrel needed.  Should be just over $200.00 or so.
 
Dies are the biggest problem.  After some research I have learned that the best way to neck down the 375 Ruger to 30 caliber is with a 338RCM FL die as an interim reducing die and then finish to 30 caliber with a 300RCM FL die (neck dies won't work).
 
The  rifle is a Beretta Mato which has a Lothar Walter barrel, so it is definitely worth saving.
 
Just throwing this out there for comment and to keep you guys informed.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/10/2010 at 20:53
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Why not just do a 300 Dakota? Brass, Dies and reamers are all available. The extra .012 will clean up the belt area. If you are worried about the slightly larger rim diameter; trim 300 ultra mag brass to length and then use the Dakota dies. Or how about short chambering a 300 Ultra to what ever water capacity you want. Trim the brass and use ultra mag dies.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/10/2010 at 20:57
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You still need to set the barrel back with the Dakota, But with the ultra mag based you could set the length to clean up the chamber with no set back. Assuming the throat is good.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/10/2010 at 21:18
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The gunsmith wanted to do a 30/338RUM by running a 300RUM reamer in just deep enough.  But that is still too much case capacity.  I know I could download but that just doesn't seem right.  I already have a 338RUM and do not want a 300RUM.
 
I looked at the 300 Dakota and it has a case capacity of ~97 grs but the bolt face would probably require some work and the brass is very expensive at about $2.00 apiece while the 375 Ruger brass is less than $1.00 each.  I am just about to receive a rebarrel in 375 Ruger so have a hundred pieces of that brass already.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/10/2010 at 22:01
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I'm not talking a 30/338 RUM. SHORTER. You set the length to get the capacity you want. By going to ~2.650 case you will clean the chamber and end up with the capacity you want. I don't know the thread pitch on the Mato but to clean up the belt area is probably going to take 4-5 threads setback. If you have a tight chamber and a loose reamer you might get by with only a couple of threads.
 Then again if you use the Dakota and make the brass for RUM you take care of the bolt face issue and cheap brass.
   Are you using a local smith? (Houston)
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/10/2010 at 22:18
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No, I am planning on sending it to my usual gunsmith in Salt Lake City.  He has done a rebarrel in 6.5 rem mag, rebarrel to 338RUM and has just finished a 375 Ruger rebarrel which I should get soon.
 
The barrel should be 1 in 10 and the head clearance on new 300 win mag cases is pretty loose at .019" but most belted magnums are loose at the shoulder.
 
"Then again if you use the Dakota and make the brass for RUM you take care of the bolt face issue and cheap brass."
 
You lost me there.


Edited by sakomato - February/10/2010 at 22:21
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/11/2010 at 09:43
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Originally posted by sakomato sakomato wrote:

The gunsmith wanted to do a 30/338RUM by running a 300RUM reamer in just deep enough.  But that is still too much case capacity.  I know I could download but that just doesn't seem right.  I already have a 338RUM and do not want a 300RUM.


Agree, it you wanted that, just by a 300RUM.  The .375 Ruger is on a standard length action correct?  Sounds like interesting project.  Please keep us posted.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/11/2010 at 09:47
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the .300 and .30-378 wby will get you 3000fps with 200gr bullets

here are the results 180gr bullet first 3000fps .507 b.c
RangeVelocityImpactDropToFEnergyDrift
03000-0.50035970
100280702.230.1131491.02
2002626-3.948.90.2227562.8
3002454-12.9320.630.3324075.89
4002289-27.7438.170.46209410.42
5002130-49.2262.380.6181316.52
here is that same 3000fps but with a 200gr bullet .588 b.c, the energy at 500yds is fairly significant(400ftlbs) difference the speeds are about 100fps.
RangeVelocityImpactDropToFEnergyDrift
03000-0.50039970
100283302.220.1135640.93
2002676-3.858.790.2131802.45
3002526-12.5820.240.3328345.07
4002380-26.7937.170.4525168.88
5002241-47.1760.260.58223013.96



Edited by pyro6999 - February/11/2010 at 09:49
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/11/2010 at 10:30
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sakomato, excellent project! Is the magazine clip on the Mato too short to accept full-length 375H&H-based cartridges? If it would, 300 Roy with no freebore would be a lot more convenient because of brass and die availability/price - but if the clip is too short this 30-375R wildcat is a very cool way to get the velocity you want in the shorter package in my opinion. With the LW barrel this should be a shooter! How does it shoot now as a 300 WinMag? And can you tell us your smith's name?

Texas


Edited by Texas - February/11/2010 at 10:32
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/11/2010 at 16:39
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Originally posted by Texas Texas wrote:

sakomato, excellent project! Is the magazine clip on the Mato too short to accept full-length 375H&H-based cartridges? If it would, 300 Roy with no freebore would be a lot more convenient because of brass and die availability/price - but if the clip is too short this 30-375R wildcat is a very cool way to get the velocity you want in the shorter package in my opinion. With the LW barrel this should be a shooter! How does it shoot now as a 300 WinMag? And can you tell us your smith's name?

Texas
 
Hey Texas, the magazine in the Mato is a full 3.70" which is large when compared to most magnum boxes that are 3.4".  The 375 Ruger was designed to fit in a 3.4" box which is why my rebarrel in that caliber on a Winchester Post 64 will work just fine.  Right now the 375 Ruger reamers are some of the most popular as many are discovering that all those 264's, 7 mags, 300 win mags and 338 win mags are great candidate for rebarreling to the 375 Ruger, no bolt face work or magazine constriction.  The 375 Ruger offers a little more case capacity than the 375 H & H as an added bonus.
 
Do not want any Roy calibers, rounded shoulders, the un-needed belt and expensive cases.  If I set the lands on a rechamber or rebarrel to take away the long throat then there is a possibility of injuring someone if they put a factory Weatherby cartridge in it.  I wouldn't, but I'm not going to live forever.
 
The 300 win mag shoots great sometimes
 
and is always no more than a 1 1/2" shooter.
 
The gunsmith is Guy Malmborg at Lock, Stock and Barrel in Salt Lake City.  He posts a  lot over on AccurateReloading as Westpac.  Not a custom rifle builder but a very good technician and gun mechanic.  On old marine that be very opinionated but will listen if you convince him you have something worth while to listen to.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/11/2010 at 19:48
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Nice group. You make good points, I see you have thought this through once or twice... this project really makes sense to me when I consider your reasoning. I'm thinking this one will really be good, and you may be on the leading edge of a trend. It makes a lot more sense to me than the 300RCM, for sure. I'm just not in love with short action bolt guns I guess. Judging from how the rifle works now, there is every reason to believe it will be a great shooter in the new wildcat chambering. Best of luck with it - keep us posted on how it works!
 
I have heard good things about LS&B, this additional info is helpful to me. I am always rolling rechambering this or that rifle around in my head. What kind of lead time are you working with?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/11/2010 at 21:33
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He is not real good with lead time and stays real busy.  The Pac-Nor 3 groove barrel has been at his place since last August and I should get it next week.
 
My old man used to say anything worth having was worth waiting for though.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/11/2010 at 10:16
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Good morning, sakomato.

Did you decide to proceed on this build?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/11/2010 at 21:19
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I did figure out how to size the 375 Ruger case neck down to a 30 caliber:
  • put a good outside chamfer on a 375 Ruger case
  • size the neck only with a 375 Ruger FL die with the expander removed
  • size the neck only with a 338 RCM FL die
  • size the neck only with a 300 RCM Neck die

It turns out to be a good looking case and exactly what I expected

300 win mag............30/375............375 Ruger
 
30/375............375 Ruger
 
So I have been communicating with the Gunsmith.  He says that June is his least busy month.  Since he will only have 2 weeks to use the rented reamer it is necessary to get all the ducks in a row.  He wants 3 or 4 resized cases.
 
The freebore on the reamer is .170" so I need to get the gun out and see if the reamer freebore will clean up the 300 win mag freebore.
 
Meanwhile my 375 Ruger finally got here so I have been focusing on it and working up loads with RL17 in it and my 30-06.  Getting excellent results BTW.
 
Patience grasshopper!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/11/2010 at 21:42
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man that sure does seem like a lot of work robert, i hope it turns out really well for you.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/11/2010 at 23:13
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Once you go through the original resizing of the necks down, the reloading will be normal with just a neck size with the 300 RCM die and sizing the case body & pushing the shoulder back with the 375 Ruger die.  Won't be much trouble until I have to start over with new cases.
 
I might take one of the fired cases and send it off to Lee for them to make a Lee Collet and then the sizing will get real easy.
 
Is it worth it?  Probably.  Will be unique and will be a supercharged 300 win mag without a belt.  The 375 Ruger I just got from the gunsmith had .002" headspace so I'm sure this one will have very little headspace also.  That will lead to a longer case life.  There will be a little more velocity which is what the 300 win mag needs with the 200 gr bullets.
 
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/12/2010 at 06:45
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I'm guessing there in not a die made for the 30/375? Sounds interesting. A buddy of mine is stuck on building a 257-300 RUM for some reason. He says it will blast a 115gr bullet at 3900/4000 fps with a solid bullet.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/12/2010 at 08:30
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id like do either a 6.5-.378wby or 7mm-.378wby myself
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/12/2010 at 08:53
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Sako, do you need to turn the necks once you get them down to .30?  Are they too thick?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/12/2010 at 09:19
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I really don't see any downside to this build. The Mato in 30-375R will be a true gem of an all around hunting rifle, and I am kinda green-eyed about it. I don't have any Mato rifles!
(Laffin)
 
Thanks for the progress report on this wildcat rifle, sakomato. I would say the smith you are using did you right on the 375R he chambered for you, 0.002" headspace is all good. Please keep us posted on progress as you move forward.
 
By the way, you don't happen to know if the reamer company has a 338-375R reamer available, do you?
 
Texas
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/12/2010 at 21:12
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Originally posted by SD Dog SD Dog wrote:

Sako, do you need to turn the necks once you get them down to .30?  Are they too thick?
 
Well that's a good question.  The final neck thickness is ~.015"
 
which is the same as the original 375 Ruger case neck thickness.  So the OD of the neck should be .308"+.015"+.015"=.338".  That would be perfect for the neck that the 300 win mag chamber now has since the OD of a fired case is .341", but the reamer drawings
 
says it has a neck dimension of .337".  So I need to ask the gunsmith if that means that the reamer neck will not re-dimension the neck at all and the finished 30/375 would have a chamber neck of .341" or .337".  If when he sets the barrel back a couple of threads and the neck gets recut (I don't see how but I am not a gunsmith) to that reamer dimension then I will have to turn the necks.
 
The necks did lengthen .010" though
 
the ID is .004" less than bullet diameter
 
Hey bigdaddy and pyro, 257/300RUM, 6.5/378Wby, 7/378Wby  Shocked??!!  I don't think they make a powder slow enough.  Not to mention that they would be real barrel burners.  500 rounds through one of those barrels and it would be toast, literally.  Those slow burning powders ganging up trying to get out of that little bore hole act just like a cutting torch and will burn one quick
 
but it is a personal choice.  Running a 200 gr 30 caliber bullet at 3000 fps floats my boat while zipping a 115 gr bullet at 4000 fps just doesn't.  Guess I'm an old fogey.
 
Texas, can't find anyone who has a 338/375 Ruger reamer but they would probably make you one, not that costly.  It should be about 1/2 way between the 338 win mag and the 338 RUM.  Having owned both of those I would say the 338 win mag can move a 225 gr bullet at 2800 fps +/- and the 338 RUM at 3100 fps +/-, so I would imagine that the 338/375 Ruger would push a 225 at close to 2950 fps or so.  Not a bad place to be.  If you shot the 200 gr or 210 gr bullet, the 338/375 Ruger would be able to push those bullets faster than a 30/375 Ruger due to having a larger bullet base to exert pressure on.  So 3000 to 3050 fps would seem to be realistic.  210 gr TTSX at 3000 fps? Not a bad place to be either.  Might have to have a muzzle brake or make a heavy rifle though, recoil would be worse than the 30 caliber.
 
It would be a legitimate wildcat though.  This is my impression of relative case capacities which depend somewhat upon which brass manufacturer
 
338 win mag ~85.6 grs
300 win mag ~89 grs
30/375 Ruger ~93.6 grs
338/375 Ruger ~95 grs ?
375 H & H ~95 grs
375 Ruger ~100 grs
338 RUM ~111 grs
300 RUM ~115 grs
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/13/2010 at 09:13
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Very nice Sako.  Wondered where the extra brass went and the neck lengthening would be it.  Would be nice if the reamer end up with the save fired OD.  
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/15/2010 at 10:20
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i just got an rcbs catalog with custom shop flyer, and rcbs makes a 6.5-.378wby set of diesShocked
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/15/2010 at 10:47
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Originally posted by pyro6999 pyro6999 wrote:

i just got an rcbs catalog with custom shop flyer, and rcbs makes a 6.5-.378wby set of diesShocked
 
How fast would a 85 grain Sierra HP go in that round??  Could be a nice looooong range varmint cartridge.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/15/2010 at 10:50
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im not sure the bullet would stay together at that speed, it would be over 4000fps!

now i need to find a company that makes the reamer and buy a 30-378 wby. good luck!


Edited by pyro6999 - March/15/2010 at 12:06
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