New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - 280AI vs. 7mm rem mag
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Check GunBroker.com for SWFA's No Reserve and No Minimum bid firearm auctions.

280AI vs. 7mm rem mag

 Post Reply Post Reply   Topic Search Topic Search  Topic Options Topic Options
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/12/2009 at 22:03
thomas View Drop Down
Optics GrassHopper
Optics GrassHopper


Joined: March/09/2009
Status: Offline
Points: 10

Know the beltless rounds have a following here vs. the belted mag rounds. I am looking to get an accurate gun prior to hunting season. Custom gun being ready for this year is now questionable from chosen gunsmith. Considering a Cooper in 280AI instead of custom in 7mag. Understand has to be reloaded. Just curious about how folks feel about the comparison of the 2. Will use for all deer hunting up to 400 yards. Not looking to shoot 1000 yards. Mostly mule deer and whitetail. Once get a load and bullet that works will likely stick with it forever.  6.5-284 is option with Cooper as well.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/12/2009 at 22:12
rifle looney View Drop Down
Optics Master
Optics Master
Avatar

Joined: November/21/2008
Status: Offline
Points: 2553
The Cooper is a fine choice and the 280 AI is great it all but equals the 7mm and ammo is available through Nosler and maybe Norma, it is easy to load for and you can shoot regular 280 with no problems and it will be just as accurate , just not as fast> 6.5-284 is a hotty as well but same thing on ammo not plentiful but it is available ...all this said nothing wrong with the 7mm but every one has one?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/13/2009 at 07:35
300S&W View Drop Down
Optics God
Optics God
Avatar

Joined: January/27/2008
Location: Burlington,WV
Status: Offline
Points: 10592
 Yep,NOTHING at all wrong with the 7mm Remington Magnum. DON"T let the belt scare ya off.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/13/2009 at 07:42
silver View Drop Down
Optics Master
Optics Master


Joined: November/04/2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 2291
Good ammo is hard enough to find right now.  Guns are easier to find than ammo.  Think about that...
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/13/2009 at 08:26
pyro6999 View Drop Down
Optics Retard
Optics Retard
Avatar
OT TITAN

Joined: December/22/2006
Location: North Dakota
Status: Offline
Points: 22024
all you gotta do if you do buy a .280AI is to buy regular .280 ammo and fire it through your rifle, then you will need a set of .280AI dies and a press etc... you will get close to 7mag performance, and probably have less recoil but ammo like others mentioned will be limited. as far as the 6.5x.284 goes, you may as well get a 6.5-06 made if you wanna go that route, you would get 200fps more than the .284 and have less pressure to boot.according to my hornady book that is, off course my nosler manual doesnt show that kind of advantage, but with the plentiful supply of 06 based cases out their it would make more sense to go that way.


Edited by pyro6999 - April/13/2009 at 10:40
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/13/2009 at 09:49
John Barsness View Drop Down
Optics Optimist
Optics Optimist


Joined: January/27/2009
Status: Offline
Points: 785

I would go with the 7mm Remington Magnum, just because of the ammo/brass problem. I have owned both and while the .280 AI can come close to the 7mm Magnum it isn't one. The belt is irrelevant, especially in a good rifle like a Cooper.

On a couple of other points that people have brought up in posts: Norma is not going to produce .280 AI ammunition. They thought about it, to the point where they actually started promoting the ammo--which was made in small pre-production batches. But they decided to let Nosler go ahead and offer their Custom ammo in .280, which is made with Norma brass anyway.

I have worked quite a bit with both the 6.5/.284 and 6.5-06, and they are just about idential ballistically, because each case holds just about exactly the same amount of powder. There might be a slight edge to the 6.5-06, but certainly nothing like 200 fps. Maybe 50 fps, if you kinda leaned on the 6.5/06.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/13/2009 at 10:38
pyro6999 View Drop Down
Optics Retard
Optics Retard
Avatar
OT TITAN

Joined: December/22/2006
Location: North Dakota
Status: Offline
Points: 22024
Originally posted by John Barsness John Barsness wrote:

I would go with the 7mm Remington Magnum, just because of the ammo/brass problem. I have owned both and while the .280 AI can come close to the 7mm Magnum it isn't one. The belt is irrelevant, especially in a good rifle like a Cooper.

On a couple of other points that people have brought up in posts: Norma is not going to produce .280 AI ammunition. They thought about it, to the point where they actually started promoting the ammo--which was made in small pre-production batches. But they decided to let Nosler go ahead and offer their Custom ammo in .280, which is made with Norma brass anyway.

I have worked quite a bit with both the 6.5/.284 and 6.5-06, and they are just about idential ballistically, because each case holds just about exactly the same amount of powder. There might be a slight edge to the 6.5-06, but certainly nothing like 200 fps. Maybe 50 fps, if you kinda leaned on the 6.5/06.


 my hornady book shows the 6.5-06 to be 200 fps faster with the 140 gr bullets than the .284, they both used a 24" barrel and the .06 was 2900 and the .284 was only 2700 so  thats what i wrote, i do think hornady is a little cautious since my 6th ed nosler does concour with what you are saying, they are very close i would still take the 6.5-06 because brass for it can be found anywhere if you have the equipment to neck it to 6.5mm. as far  as the belt goes im a huge belted case fan, so i dont let that detur me from a purchase. the 7mm mag isnt the most popular selling magnum for no reason.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/13/2009 at 12:11
300S&W View Drop Down
Optics God
Optics God
Avatar

Joined: January/27/2008
Location: Burlington,WV
Status: Offline
Points: 10592
 Honestly don't think Hornady was being cautious Pyro. Nosler develops their loads using pressure barrels and that is the data they publish. Hornady may on the other hand also develop their loads using pressure barrels but then publish data from rifles using those loads. As you know,barrels are different so it might be possible to bump up the loads shown in that Hornady manual for the 6.5-.284. Of course I'd wanta be watching my chrono while doing it!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/13/2009 at 12:15
pyro6999 View Drop Down
Optics Retard
Optics Retard
Avatar
OT TITAN

Joined: December/22/2006
Location: North Dakota
Status: Offline
Points: 22024
thats what i dont get, both of their powders are very close in weight and yet there is a 200 fps difference. they did use a 26" wiseman for the 6.5x.284 in noslers data.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/13/2009 at 12:16
John Barsness View Drop Down
Optics Optimist
Optics Optimist


Joined: January/27/2009
Status: Offline
Points: 785

I started noticing an awful lot of 7mm Remington Magnum rifles on the used racks of local gun stores when the .300 WSM came out.

Brass is the reason I chose the 6.5-06 for my own rifle, over the 6.5/.284.

The 6.5.284's I've worked with have been loaners. In fact one was identical to my 6.5-06, which is an E.R. Shaw MK-VII with a 26" #4 contour stainless barrel and a Boyd's laminated stock--and a friend loaned me the same rifle in 6.5/.284 to do a magazine article. They both get just under 3000 fps with 140's, and both very accurate. The only difference I've seen is that the 6.5/.284 shoots bullet lighter than 120 grains better than the 6.5-06, so maybe there is something to the shorter case. What I actually suspect is that I just haven't found the right powders in the 6.5-06.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/13/2009 at 12:20
pyro6999 View Drop Down
Optics Retard
Optics Retard
Avatar
OT TITAN

Joined: December/22/2006
Location: North Dakota
Status: Offline
Points: 22024
the 6.5-06 is one of them types aint it, do you use stuff like you would in the 25-06 like r-22 r-25 imr 7828 or do you go for stuff more suited for the .270/.280 like 4350 4831 r-19. i can see where that may present a challenge.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/13/2009 at 13:24
Roy Finn View Drop Down
MODERATOR
MODERATOR
Avatar
Steiner Junkie

Joined: April/05/2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 4856
Back to the question at hand, if I didn't reload I would go the 7 mag. Ammo for the 280 Ackley is expensive and probably not available everywhere like the 7 mag is. The advantages the 280 Ackley offer are less recoil, one extra round magazine capacity and last but not least, the 280 Ackley has cool appeal. Also, and in general, rifles chambered for the 280 Ackley will usually weigh less mostly do to barrel contours offered.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/13/2009 at 18:54
John Barsness View Drop Down
Optics Optimist
Optics Optimist


Joined: January/27/2009
Status: Offline
Points: 785
pyro,
 
The star in my 6.5-06 turned out to be H1000 with 140-grain bullets, the best-grouping being Berger VLD's. At 700 yards this load grouped under 1 MOA consistently, with 3-shot groups in the 3-1/2" to 5" range.
 
Also very good were Ramshot Hunter with 120 Ballistic Tips, and 130 Swift Scirocco II's with VH N560.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/13/2009 at 20:00
sakomato View Drop Down
Optics Master
Optics Master
Avatar

Joined: February/28/2008
Location: Houston
Status: Offline
Points: 1085
I load for 3 different 7 mags and have a 280AI.  In all I like to load the 160 gr Accubond since it has shown excellent accuracy and downrange performance.  One of the 7 mags shows pressure signs at 3050 fps and on the others I did not push past 2950 fps just to be on the safe side.
 
The one 7 mag I pushed the 160 AB to 3050 fps was with 66 gr RL22 seated .020" off.  With my 280AI I shoot a 160 AB to 3000 fps + with 60 gr RL22 with no pressure signs until I hit well over 61 gr.  Perhaps that is because of the tight chamber but nevertheless the 280AI can achieve the same velocity using approx 6 grains less powder.  That means less recoil and less muzzle blast.
 
YMMV
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/13/2009 at 21:35
thomas View Drop Down
Optics GrassHopper
Optics GrassHopper


Joined: March/09/2009
Status: Offline
Points: 10

Appreciate the feedback. Cooper does not chamber in 7 mag or 300 mag. The wildcats are the closest balistically that they offer. Any other ideas on off the shelf guns, that would be readily available in the next few months? I would spend up to 2500 for an accurate 7mag or 300mag. Probably if am flexible on stock and barrel make can get the custom gun done in a 2 or 3 months and would be as good or better than Cooper.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/13/2009 at 21:42
Roy Finn View Drop Down
MODERATOR
MODERATOR
Avatar
Steiner Junkie

Joined: April/05/2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 4856
Not trying to be a wise arse, but finding something better than the Cooper (for accuracy) will be a tall order to fill. In my experience, they shoot about as good, if not better, than alot of the semi-custom rifles being turned out today.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/13/2009 at 21:45
rifle looney View Drop Down
Optics Master
Optics Master
Avatar

Joined: November/21/2008
Status: Offline
Points: 2553
Lot's of accurate guns out there look at the KIMBERS ..just a note on the custom, if he or they told you 2 or 3 months...  beware I've been down that road it just don't happen? that is the lure to get your cash? or check.... Hill country rifles.com.... for rifles ready for sale!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/13/2009 at 21:52
Tip69 View Drop Down
Optics Master Extraordinaire
Optics Master Extraordinaire
Avatar
Tip Stick

Joined: September/27/2005
Location: Nebraska
Status: Offline
Points: 3483
what about Hill Country?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/13/2009 at 22:09
rifle looney View Drop Down
Optics Master
Optics Master
Avatar

Joined: November/21/2008
Status: Offline
Points: 2553
Originally posted by Tip69 Tip69 wrote:

what about Hill Country?


As in what ?  Loco
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/14/2009 at 09:01
Dale Clifford View Drop Down
Optics Jedi Knight
Optics Jedi Knight


Joined: July/04/2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 5087

If you are only shooting to 500 yds, with hunting bullets which usually max out their BC around .450 in the lighter wts. why do you need a mag? The Cooper would be the mod. 22 and is a single shot. Ultra accuracy isn't necessary as again its only 500 yds. When the 280 was introduced to american guns the loads where way under loaded for the rem. autos. A regular 280 can be loaded almost to 280AI, been doing it for 20 years ina Steyer Luxus 7x64 Brenneke. Heres a 280 with 162 amax at 2800 fps. and TDS reticle with Bar 1 on 100, bar 2 on 200 yds. etc doesnt get much easier than that, total wt. just over 8 1/2 lbs.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/14/2009 at 09:30
pyro6999 View Drop Down
Optics Retard
Optics Retard
Avatar
OT TITAN

Joined: December/22/2006
Location: North Dakota
Status: Offline
Points: 22024
the 7x64 is basically a dead ringer for the .280, only in the european variation.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/14/2009 at 09:31
pyro6999 View Drop Down
Optics Retard
Optics Retard
Avatar
OT TITAN

Joined: December/22/2006
Location: North Dakota
Status: Offline
Points: 22024
Originally posted by rifle looney rifle looney wrote:

Originally posted by Tip69 Tip69 wrote:

what about Hill Country?


As in what ?  Loco

hill country custom rifles! new braunfels texas i believe.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/14/2009 at 13:38
pyro6999 View Drop Down
Optics Retard
Optics Retard
Avatar
OT TITAN

Joined: December/22/2006
Location: North Dakota
Status: Offline
Points: 22024
Originally posted by John Barsness John Barsness wrote:

pyro,
 
The star in my 6.5-06 turned out to be H1000 with 140-grain bullets, the best-grouping being Berger VLD's. At 700 yards this load grouped under 1 MOA consistently, with 3-shot groups in the 3-1/2" to 5" range.
 
Also very good were Ramshot Hunter with 120 Ballistic Tips, and 130 Swift Scirocco II's with VH N560.


my .264 win mag loves h-1000 with sierra 140gr sgk's
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/14/2009 at 15:02
rifle looney View Drop Down
Optics Master
Optics Master
Avatar

Joined: November/21/2008
Status: Offline
Points: 2553
I like my 7x57 Mauser with 139/140 grain bullets and 49/50 grains of IMR 4350 at around 2850 fps never chronographed but should be close + -   Wink
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/14/2009 at 15:26
lucytuma View Drop Down
Optics Jedi Knight
Optics Jedi Knight
Avatar

Joined: November/25/2007
Location: Wisconsin
Status: Offline
Points: 5389
Cooper makes excellent rifles and would be a great alternative to a custom made rifle. 
 Post Reply Post Reply
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Similar Threads: "280AI vs. 7mm rem mag"
Subject Author Forum Replies Last Post
7mm WSM or 7mm Rem Mag dezmick Firearms 19
Best Scope Under $500 for LR 7mm rem mag FLAVIO Rifle Scopes 8
375 Ruger, 338RUM, 280AI, 6.5 rem mag sakomato The Range Report 4
1st day with new M70 7mm rem mag mil169 The Range Report 35
Ruger m77 7mm rem mag tman1965 Firearms For Sale 6
BRASS .300WM .300 Win Mag & 7MM Rem Mag 7mm Magnum 338LAPUASLAP Hunting and Shooting Gear For Sale 0
Scope for a Rem 700 in 7mm mag OldEyes Rifle Scopes 6
Savage 110E 7mm Rem Mag Scope Mounting question jcouto Rings and bases 2
HSM 7mm rem mag match venisonsniper Reloading & Ballistics 1
Anyone used 7mm Rem Mag 175 corel-lokt factory l boliodogs Reloading & Ballistics 9


This page was generated in 0.406 seconds.