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270 WSM -vs- 270 WTHBY

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/05/2007 at 14:46
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Any preferences?  I have decided to get a Weatherby SUB MOA SS.  I like the .270 caliber and can't see much difference in ballistics from a WSM versus a Weatherby in this caliber.  Other than the famed name and slightly higher cost of ammunition, are there any differences?  Will the recoil be the same? 

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/05/2007 at 16:53
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Here's the ballistics of both.

.270 WSM (150 Sp at 3150)
.270 Wby. Mag. (150 Sp at 3245)
 
The recoil of both is going to be basically the same. The weatherby may have a bit more recoil, but probably nothing noticeable.
 
Pro's and Con's of both.
 
.270WSM
Pro's: Short Action, cheaper ammo
Con's: Minor lose in FPS
 
.270 Weatherby Mag
Pro's: Shoots a bit faster
Con's: Slightly more recoil, long action, expensive ammo
 
So basically it all boils down to whether you want a long action or a short action rifle, and if you are willing to pay a bit more for ammo from Weatherby.
 
Good luck and let us know what you choose.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/05/2007 at 17:27
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I think I hear pyro lurking somewhere...  He'll definitely give you some insight into this one...
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/05/2007 at 18:15
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I like the 270wsm, I believe its a good choice. Better and cheaper brass available and a non-belted case. I prefer non-belted's and like the slightly shorter, slightly lighter, slightly more rigid, short actions for hunting rifles. A game animal will never know the difference which caliber is used. I also for my own reasons don't care for the freebore in weatherby calibers. I like to be able to tune back and forth off the lands when reloading. A vote for the 270wsm.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/05/2007 at 18:21
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Pyro!!! We need you here buddy!!!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/05/2007 at 18:41
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I have a 270wsm and a 300win mag ... I prefer the short action.  So my vote goes to the wsm.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/05/2007 at 19:07
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the wby is the way to go, not only do you gain fps and ft lbs of energy, but you have a case that doesnt have that sharp shoulder that the wsm cases all have, i have a 300wsm and i cannot wait to get rid of it, i have a 300 win mag also and i absolutly wouldnt trade it for the world! my wifes cousin has a 270 wsm in an aboltII and he seems to think its ok, if you really want a wsm i would tell you to go with the 7wsm, if you reload the 7mm will give you a lot more choices in bullet weights to play with than the .277 will. im not a a fan of the 270 family but if i had a gun to my head and was told to buy a 270 now i would buy the weatherby
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/05/2007 at 19:28
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Originally posted by pyro6999 pyro6999 wrote:

the wby is the way to go, not only do you gain fps and ft lbs of energy, but you have a case that doesnt have that sharp shoulder that the wsm cases all have, i have a 300wsm and i cannot wait to get rid of it...
 
Pyro, I thought you were considering selling your .300WSM solely because of recoil, not because of any issues with the WSM case, and that you said you wish you could keep it because it shoots well.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/05/2007 at 19:34
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i said the 300wsm has a recoil issue i never  said any of the other wsm kick, and honestly i havent shot any of the other wsm's but if its anything like its standard length counter parts it works like this .270 win kicks a bit the 7mm rem mag kicks a little more the 300win mag kicks a little bit more yet so i would assume starting at the .270wsm and working my way up the recoil gets worse as you get bigger. when i mentioned the sharp shoulder i was adding a possible negative factor for the wsm i myself havent had any feeding issues with my wsm but i have heard from some people i know that they have, and its mostly been with the .270wsm and all of the wssm's. i am selling my 300 solely based on recoil cause i am a whimp, so what i'll admit i dont like that much recoil, so what do i do, buy a smaller gun the .264 win mag will be a nice fit for me i think
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/05/2007 at 19:48
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BTW -- if I were trying to decide between those two chamberings, I'd steer away from .270 altogether and go with 7WSM, 7Rem, 7Wby, or some other "big 7."  Keep in mind, if you have your heart set on the Weatherby Sub MOA SS Vanguard, unless something has recently changed, it isn't available in .270 Wby (though it is available in .270WSM).  It isn't available in 7WSM either, but I was speaking of caliber choice, irrespective of rifles. 
 
In the same bullet weights, 7mm will give identical performance as .277" with the same case capacity, plus offering the added versatility of being able to handle heavier bullets and greater bullet selection in general.  Under no circumstances would I ever choose any .270 caliber round over any equivalent 7mm caliber round.  The 7's are just plain more versatile.  The only disadvantage is when considering the 7WSM vs. .270WSM in terms of factory ammo availability and factory rifle chamberings.  For some reason, 7WSM never caught on like the other WSMs, but there are no shortage of rifles chambered in most all the other 7 mags, and if you find a suitable rifle chambered in 7WSM, ammo availability is a non-issue if you reload.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/05/2007 at 19:53
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6.5 will step it up even more something magical about the 6.5's sectional density and ballistic coeffiecient's are so high its sick
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/05/2007 at 20:02
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Originally posted by pyro6999 pyro6999 wrote:

i said the 300wsm has a recoil issue i never  said any of the other wsm kick, and honestly i havent shot any of the other wsm's but if its anything like its standard length counter parts it works like this .270 win kicks a bit the 7mm rem mag kicks a little more the 300win mag kicks a little bit more yet so i would assume starting at the .270wsm and working my way up the recoil gets worse as you get bigger.
 
I wasn't inferring that you did say that.  The wording of your post above sounded like you were saying the sharp shoulder of the WSM case was one of the reasons why you "couldn't wait to get rid of" your .300WSM.  It just sounded like there was another issue besides recoil with your .300WSM that made you consider selling it.  I'm not sure what you mean by the sharp shoulder being an issue with all WSMs, as the shoulder is not the issue with WSM feeding.  In some rifles, the short, fat geometry of the case can create somewhat of a feeding problem due to the severe angle a short case must travel from the magazine up the feed ramp into the chamber, combined with the large case diameter.  This is mainly a problem with short actions originally chambered for .308 family cartridges that were converted over to a WSM, though.  In the thread where you were discussing the possibility of getting rid of your .300WSM, you said you really didn't want to get rid of it because it shoots well, and I just thought by your post above that there was a secondary issue that made you go from reluctantly wanting to sell it to "can't wait to sell it."
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/05/2007 at 20:09
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Originally posted by pyro6999 pyro6999 wrote:

6.5 will step it up even more something magical about the 6.5's sectional density and ballistic coeffiecient's are so high its sick
 
True, but 7mm is no slouch in terms of SD and BC depending on the bullet choice, plus, just like the comparison with .277", it offers greater overall versatility than the 6.5s, not only in terms of bullet selection and being able to handle heavier bullets, but also in case choices as well, which is probably second only to .30 caliber.
 
6.5 is a very interesting, efficient caliber.  I'm a big fan of the .260 and 6.5-.284.  7 just offers more chambering options, more bullets to choose from, and more factory rifles chambered for it.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/05/2007 at 20:12
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you would be correct as usual ted i was also using some marketing hype to try and sway him away from a .270wsm with my comments and actually i can go from a 85-160gr bullets in the 6.5's not bad of course its not as broad as the .308's

Edited by pyro6999 - December/05/2007 at 20:19
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/05/2007 at 20:27
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Originally posted by pyro6999 pyro6999 wrote:

...i was also using some marketing hype to try and sway him away from a .270wsm with my comments
 
I hear ya bro.  I'm not as adamantly against .277" dia bullets as you are, but I too believe the caliber is severely lacking compared to its closest siblings.  Go up only 0.007" in bullet dia to the 7mm's and you have infinitely better options in bullets, cases, and rifles with at least equal, and in most cases, better overall performance when comparing similar case capacity.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/05/2007 at 20:30
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absolutely you know how i am ted i have a 6.5 a 7 and  .308 in the house im no stranger to the 7mm and .308's, so when you gonna send me a check for my 300wsm??
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/06/2007 at 06:51
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The 270wsm and 300wsm will be around long after the rest of the batch is gone. Given the choice posted in the opening thread I will still say get the 270wsm between your two choices. Ballistic difference between the two are a wash as far as game is concerned and the cost for brass will favor the wsm.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/06/2007 at 16:38
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Originally posted by RifleDude RifleDude wrote:

BTW -- if I were trying to decide between those two chamberings, I'd steer away from .270 altogether and go with 7WSM, 7Rem, 7Wby, or some other "big 7."  Keep in mind, if you have your heart set on the Weatherby Sub MOA SS Vanguard, unless something has recently changed, it isn't available in .270 Wby (though it is available in .270WSM).  It isn't available in 7WSM either, but I was speaking of caliber choice, irrespective of rifles. 
 
In the same bullet weights, 7mm will give identical performance as .277" with the same case capacity, plus offering the added versatility of being able to handle heavier bullets and greater bullet selection in general.  Under no circumstances would I ever choose any .270 caliber round over any equivalent 7mm caliber round.  The 7's are just plain more versatile.  The only disadvantage is when considering the 7WSM vs. .270WSM in terms of factory ammo availability and factory rifle chamberings.  For some reason, 7WSM never caught on like the other WSMs, but there are no shortage of rifles chambered in most all the other 7 mags, and if you find a suitable rifle chambered in 7WSM, ammo availability is a non-issue if you reload.
 
Yes, I just noticed that RifleDude, just got a new Weatherby 08 catalog and it is only offered in WSM.  I think at one time the SUB MOA was offered in both then again maybe I'm mistaken.  
 
I'm only hunting antelope and deer with this rifle and the 140 grain Nosler Accubond would have plenty of ft-lbs of energy for elk if desired, not that I plan on going elk hunting with this gun.  1620 ft-lbs of energy at 500 yards is more than any 30-06, 308, 280, and many of the 7mm-mag loads.  Heck, that is more than a few 300 Win. Mag loads. 
 
But back to the recoil:  It seems that I hear of more people complaining about recoil from the WSM family compared to their close relatives?  Maybe it's just the gun selection, I don't know. 
 
I like the 270 caliber for what it is used for:  Deer and Antelope.  If you want a coyote gun buy a 223, if you want an elk/moose gun by a 300 Wthby MAG.  I guess that is my opinion.  Hey, if I used one gun for every hunt, how could I ever talk the wife into letting me buy more beautiful rifles and scopes...that wouldn't be any fun at all.   
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/06/2007 at 17:13
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I found the wsm's start to get your attention when you get above 150gr. I think the 270 or 7mm wsm's would be quite reasonable with a decent recoil pad and stock. I had a 300wsm that with 180's in a savage with a tupperware stock was downright nasty! I plan on getting a 270wsm and than rebarreling when the barrels shot out or if it doesn't live up to expectations for accuracy with a 6.5wsm barrel. I believe that would be a hummer for a short action......

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/06/2007 at 17:14
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my 300 wsm and my 300 win are both abolts composite stocks with a blued finish and the wsm kicks way more, im not sure if the extra couple inches of barrel length really makes that much difference i can see that 3" of extra barrel takes that much kick out of the shot.
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Originally posted by pyro6999 pyro6999 wrote:

...so when you gonna send me a check for my 300wsm??
 
Well buddy, that all depends on what number needs to be written on said check to make you part with it!  I already have a 300WM, a 7WSM, two 7RMs, and a 338WM, so I really don't have a need for a 300WSM.  But, hey, everything's negotiable.  Send me a PM and we can discuss, but I highly doubt I'd be willing to pay anywhere near what you need to get for it.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/06/2007 at 23:21
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Originally posted by SSvalhalla SSvalhalla wrote:

But back to the recoil:  It seems that I hear of more people complaining about recoil from the WSM family compared to their close relatives?  Maybe it's just the gun selection, I don't know. 
 
Given equal velocity, bullet weight, and rifle weight, there is no difference in the recoil generated by a WSM and a "standard" magnum in the same caliber, period.  That's not to say that some physical characteristic of the rifle itself isn't contributing to higher felt recoil.  Unless the rifle chambered in a WSM is considerably lighter (which in some cases, is possible with a shorter action and barrel) or the stock design and butt pad isn't optimal for the recoil level, there's no reason why a WSM chambered rifle should punish the shooter more than a rifle chambered in a ballistically similar long magnum.  For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction, so a bullet with the same mass, traveling at the same velocity will always produce the same recoil impulse regardless of the shape of the case that launched it.
 
Originally posted by SSvalhalla SSvalhalla wrote:

I like the 270 caliber for what it is used for:  Deer and Antelope.  If you want a coyote gun buy a 223, if you want an elk/moose gun by a 300 Wthby MAG.  I guess that is my opinion.  Hey, if I used one gun for every hunt, how could I ever talk the wife into letting me buy more beautiful rifles and scopes...that wouldn't be any fun at all.   
 
I can certainly relate to any justification used for buying another rifle. Wink My comments on the .270 are in no way meant to say it doesn't work well for its intended use.  Far from it.  My only point is that since .270 (.277") and 7mm are so close to each other and cover the exact same niche, given equal case capacity and bullet weight, what one will do, the other will do equally as well...except that the 7mm is more versatile because of the broader range of bullet weights and designs available.  Given the much greater bullet selection in 7mm, I simply don't understand why someone would choose a .270 caliber chambering over an equivalent 7mm, unless the decision is based more on a particular rifle than the caliber it's chambered for.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/07/2007 at 07:54
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ted i agree with most of what you said but i will add some food for thought, take the 30-06 family 25-06 .270 .280 and 30-06 load them all up with the same 50 grains of powder and put there normal bullets in the cases so say 117-130-150-165 you cant possibly tell me since they shoot different weights that the felt recoil doesnt change between them, i know you said given that all the factors are equal it wont matter, but when you change the bullet weights it will the 165 gr 30-06 will kick more than the 117gr 25-06 i know you know this, and in the wsm family its no different. i will run a recoil calc on your 7wsm i already put what my 300's was.
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30lbs of recoil @ 17fps  in the 7wsm with a 150gr bullet with the same speed as the load i shoot out of my 300wsm which when i entered the exact numbers puts my 300wsm at 38lbs of recoil @ 19fps but the bullets are going the same speed. so bullet weight has a lot to do with felt recoil.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/07/2007 at 11:10
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Svalhalla................................The real difference between the 270 WBY. and the WSM as far as hunting is concerned or its affect on game is,,,,ZIP, ZERO, NADA!!!! Either will do for your needs.........The minimal performance advantage that the 270 Wby. would have, would make absolutely no difference on your quarry! My personal preference in this case would be for the 270WSM!............Why? Shorter action, reduced rifle expense without buying the MK5, reduction in rifle weight, ammo will be lesser expensive, reloading expenses, such as powder due to the shorter WSM case should be somewhat less (less powder capacity for the WSM).......The entire concept behind the WSM`s was to produce a shorter but fatter cartridge, in lighter rifles, while maintaining about the same ballistic performance as the longer mags. The 270 WSM well exceeds the 270 Win. in performance and is close enough to the WBY. to not even really be concerned whatsoever!! WinkWinkWinkWink
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