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270 Win vs. 7mm-08

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/14/2011 at 10:58
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Can someone run 140 gr (bullet for deer) out of 22 inch barrels for me. Run a factory load as I am not relaoding yet. Interested in fps, energy, and drop out to 500 yards.  Ive been trying ballistic sites but having a difficult time.  Any suggestions on "ballistics calculator for dummies" site?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/14/2011 at 11:26
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Even for someone who has figured out a ballistics calculator, that's not enough info to go on. There are lot of choices in .270 ammo and a fair number in 7mm-08. Do you have some specifics in mind? Also, there is no way (or reason) to use a specific barrel length in a calculator. About all you can keep in mind is that given two barrels made exactly the same way out of the same material, the longer one will have more velocity, e.g. the same load I shoot from my 24" .308 is about 75fps faster than out of a 20" barrel.

Someone could still give you a comparison for a few loads but keep in mind there will be some variation in rifles no matter what. Commercial sites like Federal (http://www.federalpremium.com/products/compare/rifle_compare.aspx) can give you some limited info, e.g. here are two 140 gr. Nosler bullets:



Here's one way to look at it. Both of these cartridges are necked down versions of two popular catridges (the .30-06 and the .308 Win). The smaller dia. bullets in a case with almost as much capacity as the original is generally a win in terms of better ballistic performance for the same amount of recoil. Unless you are getting into reloading seriously, however, I'd tend to lean towards a .270 just because ammo is available so many places. Just looking at bullets for reloading, the .270 has more choices with better ballistics. That means if you do reload, you can drop charges down to a comfortable recoil and still have superior performance to a 7mm bullet.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/14/2011 at 21:40
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If you don't reload and are recoil shy the 08 is the better of the two. IMHO!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/15/2011 at 11:54
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I like the .270. It can be had with high ballistic coefficients leading to a very flat trajectory and high energy retention downrange. The recoil from a .270 out of a 9 pound rifle/scope setup is not harsh at all, much much less recoil than any magnum caliber commonly used for deer hunting and the .270 can nearly match the performance of the 7mm rem mag when you get out to the long distances where energy and drop actually become critical.

the 7mm-08 is also a great caliber, but if you are not reloading I don't see it as being as flexible in bullet selection. Additionally, the .270 outperforms the 7mm-08 in energy and bullet drop out to 500 yards as you specified. The increase is recoil should not be a problem unless you are very recoil shy. Both rounds are excellent deer calibers and will do everything you could possibly need in hunting situations. I don't think a deer would be able to tell the difference between either at any range. Go with whichever one you find the rifle you like in, or if you prefer a short action and smaller compact rifle, go with the 7mm-08.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/16/2011 at 18:42
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For a factory hunting load look at these numbers.

http://www.hornady.com/store/7mm-08-Rem-139-gr-SST-superformance/
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/17/2011 at 15:55
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id take a  .280ai myself, problem solved.Big Grin
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/17/2011 at 22:22
jonoMT View Drop Down
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The .280ai would be a great chambering, but I'd be worried about finding ammo for it just anywhere.

FWIW, a friend of mine shot his first deer @ 200 yards with a .270 and, believe me, his shooting experience is as minimal as it gets. Afterwards, as we're retrieving what turned out to be a very fine, heavy buck, he asked me if he should ever clean the rifle. I don't recall him complaining about the recoil.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/18/2011 at 08:14
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Love this easy calculator:
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/18/2011 at 10:50
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My 7mm-08 handload puts a 140 TTSX out of the barrel at 2840 fps.  When sighted in 1.75 inches high at 100 yards the drops match nearly perfectly to my Vortex Viper BDC out to 500 yards.

I have rifles in a variety of calibers from .22 LR to 300 RUM, and the 7mm-08 is my favorite.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/18/2011 at 11:03
jonoMT View Drop Down
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No offense, but that calculator is not as useful as either of these:

http://www.shooterscalculator.com/ (new one with some graphing, multiple trajectories and a nice UI...needs the addition mils, which I think the author is doing)

Or the harder-to-understand, but gold standard:
http://www.jbmballistics.com/cgi-bin/jbmtraj-5.1.cgi

If you need help with either, just ask here. Someone on the OT will help you out.


Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/18/2011 at 14:49
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Its all mostly personal preference to me. I like Bitterroot Bulls, like my 7-08 better then many other more powerful, more expensive rifles I have....I recently bought a Weatherby Vanguard 243 and I have to say it may run a close 2nd if it shoots the way they say it will.. But my Sako Finnlight 7-08 will shoot a 140 gr Accubond with 42 Grains of Varget at 2850 fps out of the barrel with handloads. It shoots approx. a .500 group at 100 yards depending on my mood with way less recoil than my Kimber 270wsm...It has a 20" barrel and weighs in @ a whopping 7.5lbs. with a Conquest 4.5x14x50, Custom Built Featherweight Stock and Fully Loaded....I like it so well I might get another one just like it because it kills Bull Elk deadWink

Edited by JF4545 - September/18/2011 at 15:04
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/20/2011 at 18:04
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Originally posted by jonoMT jonoMT wrote:

The .280ai would be a great chambering, but I'd be worried about finding ammo for it just anywhere.

FWIW, a friend of mine shot his first deer @ 200 yards with a .270 and, believe me, his shooting experience is as minimal as it gets. Afterwards, as we're retrieving what turned out to be a very fine, heavy buck, he asked me if he should ever clean the rifle. I don't recall him complaining about the recoil.

 you could in a pinch use .280 ammo in it, i wouldnt recommend itWink
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/06/2012 at 09:09
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I'm amazed no one has pointed out the fact that these are in two different action lengths.  When trying to make a light weight hiking rifle, for me at least, a short action is mandatory to save as much weight as possible.  This makes the difference between the calibres not just a matter of ballistics, but a matter of intended use beyond just game selection.

Aside from that, combined with the significantly lower recoil (think 30-06 vs 308) and faster lock time, 7mm-08 will be a far easier calibre to be precise with let alone easier to carry around.  That said, if you're a good shot with near .308 recoil and you're more into ambush hunting from the prone at long ranges, then the shorter flight time of the 270 is going to help you be more precise.

The way I look at it they are both amazing calibres for doing different things.  If you want a light weight hiking gun for offhand shooting within MPBR then the 7mm-08, no question.  If you want to hang out and wait for dinner to come to you, build it heavier and go 270.  It's like picking a bear gun and asking 308 or 300 wm.  They're each better at different things.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/06/2012 at 09:45
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swi7z3r, welcome to the OT. That's a good point about choosing a short action to keep weight down. I didn't even think of it because I wouldn't choose a long action anyway. FWIW though, I don't think flight time is going to vary enough to make a difference in precision. It's not enough to matter much.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/06/2012 at 09:52
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Certainly for me it's not, but there are the types who pride themselves in pushing out to the limit of a cartridge.  An animal can move a good bit in a second if the timing happens to be wrong.  If the person chose a 270 I'd feel better for the animal.  But you're right, it's an extreme condition.

And thanks for the welcome :)
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/06/2012 at 10:51
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When hunting, you don't feel recoil (assuming you didn't really screw up) when you fire on game.  On the bench, different story.

FOr hunting, 270 will hit harder.

I have a 7 pound 270 and it is not pleasant to shoot all day offhand, but recoil isn't terrible.

7-08 is indeed a nice round, minimal recoil, easy to shoot, short action,, but ammo selection isn't as diverse, and it won't hit as hard.  It shoots flat, but doesn't have the energy of the 270.

Personally, unless you are recoil sensitive, I'd get the 270 - if choosing between just those 2.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/06/2012 at 11:27
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i was under the impression that the 308 and 30.06 had nearly the same case capacity, and thus, nearly the same potential for recoil and velocity.  if the velocities are nearly identical than the only other factor in down-range energy will be the bullet's weight and shape.  if the shapes are the same (ie. both barne's ttsx or nosler ab, ect), then shouldn't a .284 caliber bullet have more energy downrange than a .277?

i think the most importan points that have been brought up so far are:

1. if you're not reloading, you're somewhat more limited in round selection and availability with a 7mm-08.  however, if you have time and can plan ahead, you can mail order ammo.

2. action length.  the 7mm-08 will save you a little weight because it's a short action, and potentially save you time with follow up shots.


besides those two things, these chamberings are close enough for it to come down to personal preference. 

imho, there's not enough difference in the actual characteristics of the rounds or bullets to be the deciding factor.  anything that one can kill, so can the other... even out to 500 yards.  decide whether you want a long or short action... or whether ammunition availability are the most important factors in your purchase decision and you're set.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/06/2012 at 12:08
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Originally posted by Dyelynn Dyelynn wrote:

i was under the impression that the 308 and 30.06 had nearly the same case capacity, and thus, nearly the same potential for recoil and velocity.  if the velocities are nearly identical than the only other factor in down-range energy will be the bullet's weight and shape.  if the shapes are the same (ie. both barne's ttsx or nosler ab, ect), then shouldn't a .284 caliber bullet have more energy downrange than a .277?



The .308 has less case capacity than the 30-06. Water capacity for the .308 is 56 grains as opposed to the 30-06's 69 grains.

The 30-06 has a greater velocity potential than the 308 in all bullet weights.

Downrange energy is affected by weight and ballistic coefficient. Bullets of identical weight and BC sent at identical velocities will have identical energies.

The .270 140 AB has a BC of .496 versus the 7mm 140 AB's .485. The weight is the same, so if they both start at the same velocity, the 270 will retain more velocity and carry more energy, due to the higher BC.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/06/2012 at 13:11
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Both calibers will kill a buck as dead as you need, but to get the most out of the 7mm08 I think you need to reload. I would take the 7mm08 as it has a wider choice of bullet weights for reloading.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/06/2012 at 21:37
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If you are only planning on shooting 140 grs out of both, I would take the 270 any day over the 7mm-08.  It hits hard, and will work on anything from antelope to elk, and even black bear.  I have even thought about going to the 150 gr  in my 270.  But I love the 140s I shoot.  I have a 22 in barrel on my 270, and if weren't for having a 300 WM I love to shoot and hunt elk with just for the knock down power, I would chose my 270.  It is light weight and comfortable to shoot.  Never had an issue with recoil, but that is just me personally.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/11/2012 at 16:52
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I have a Browning X-Bolt in 7mm-08.
 
Using Reloder 17 and Hornady 162gr Amax, Lapua 260rem cases expanded up to 7mm I'm getting 2800fps.  I won't give the charge but I've worked up the load starting at 43 gr while checking case head expansion and primers for signs of pressure.  The load I ended up with is over book max.
 
I've just started working loads for the Berger 140gr VLD's and so far i've seen 3000fps.  My best groups with the Bergers have come with them seated a long way off the lands.
 
Both loads will put 5 under .5" at 100yards.
 
There are a much larger selection of high BC projectiles in 7mm.
 
The 7mm-08 doesn't have the boiler room to push the 180gr's.  I'm in the process of building up a longe range precision rifle and may chamber it in 284 win.  I hope to be able to launch 180gr Bergers at 2800fps.
 
Why do I need a 270 ?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/13/2012 at 10:21
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Originally posted by Bitterroot Bulls Bitterroot Bulls wrote:

Originally posted by Dyelynn Dyelynn wrote:

i was under the impression that the 308 and 30.06 had nearly the same case capacity, and thus, nearly the same potential for recoil and velocity.  if the velocities are nearly identical than the only other factor in down-range energy will be the bullet's weight and shape.  if the shapes are the same (ie. both barne's ttsx or nosler ab, ect), then shouldn't a .284 caliber bullet have more energy downrange than a .277?



The .308 has less case capacity than the 30-06. Water capacity for the .308 is 56 grains as opposed to the 30-06's 69 grains.

The 30-06 has a greater velocity potential than the 308 in all bullet weights.

Downrange energy is affected by weight and ballistic coefficient. Bullets of identical weight and BC sent at identical velocities will have identical energies.

The .270 140 AB has a BC of .496 versus the 7mm 140 AB's .485. The weight is the same, so if they both start at the same velocity, the 270 will retain more velocity and carry more energy, due to the higher BC.


14 thousanths of an inch in BC can't equal much of a difference in downrange energy and velocity.  still seems to me the biggest questions remaining are length of action, bullet selection and whether or not you reload.

unless you're a fan of preparing for the zombie apocolypse in which case you should be looking at a 30.06 or .308, purely for the available ammo laying around.

my personal opinion is... i have a .270win ... i don't have a 7mm-08.  i would like to have a 7mm-08, but if i had it to do over again, i'd still buy a .270 first because even in a roadside store in the middle of BFE, where there were only 6 boxes of rifle ammunition on the shelf (all remmy core lokt btw), there was .308, 30.06, 300WM and .270win.   it's hard to go wrong with one of the most popular hunting cartridges ever.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/13/2012 at 10:42
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I have both, first deer rifle I ever bought was a Savage 110 in 270 and have killed many a deer with it.  My father-in-law gave me a 7mm-08 and I have taken a few deer with it.  Although 270 ammo is usually much more common, I went into a Walmart in El Dorado Arkansas to buy my hunting license and they had no 270 and 10 boxes of Remington 7mm-08 ammo, the 270 had sold out fast.
 
I prefer my 7mm-08 because it is a shorter and easier to handle in the climbing stands and box stands that I hunt out of and my shots are normally less than 200 yards, but like Dyelynn stated, if I did it all over again I would still go with the 270 first.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/13/2012 at 10:55
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  For me when it comes down to these two cartridges it more the rifle than the chambering.  I've got a M70 Classic Fwt w/a factory McMillan stock in .270 Win that handles great.   If it happened to be a 7mm-08 it wouldn't hurt my feelings at all.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/14/2012 at 11:16
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I have the Model 70 featherweight in 7mm-08 and I love it. For me, a 120gr TTSX for whitetail is the gold standard for whitetail out to 300yds. I also like my A-bolt .270, but I also like the short action, especially in the model 70, in 7mm-08. Hands down my favorite texas cartridge. I do handload, and I can get 3000fps with the ttsx out of the 22" barrel over varget. I also find that the barnes bullets like to be pushed to max recommended loads or a little over. My opinion, obviously. Worth what you paid for it.
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