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270 for elk

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Found out last week that I got drawn for cow elk.  My first choice was bull, so I was pretty excited to see that I had gotten drawn.  There are some huge elk here in AZ.  I already had loaded a bunch of 338 win mag for the hunt, but considering it is a cow tag, and that I'm getting a little better groupings with my 270, I will use it instead.  What do you guys think of Nosler Partition 150 grain bullets out of the 270.  I've never loaded any quality bullets for the gun, and thought I would give this a try.  It is a late hunt.  Mid December.  Should be cold, but I like it that way.  Get the whole effect.
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The 150 Partition should work fine, Coby.  Better still would be the Swift A-Frame, Trophy Bonded, Barnes Triple Shock, Winchester XP3, etc., all of which are latest generation, controlled expansion bullets with either bonded cores or solid copper expansion zones.  The Partition is designed to shed its non-bonded front core, so it expands rapidly, then the rear section stays together.  The other, more modern designs retain a much greater % of their weight, and given the same sectional density, the bullet that retains more weight and doesn't expand too rapidly will always penetrate better.  Try a selection of good, tough 150's and use the one out of this class that groups well in your rifle.
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Good luck on your hunt, by the way!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/20/2008 at 22:27
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The Partition is a nice bullet but it tends to shed it's front portion rather easily. I would give the Barnes TSX 150gr bullet a try. I'd also load the fine Swift A-frame and the Speer Grand Slam. All very tough bullets.
The Barnes 150gr TSX leaving the muzzle at 2900fps would do any job you asked of it. The 140gr TSX is a boattail design and so would carry over long distances better and since the Barnes bullets are so tough, one of these pills with a MV of 3050fps with a 250 yd zero would less than 2.4 inches high at 100 and only 3.3 inches low at 300 at which point it would still be travelling 2500 fps and packing nearly a ton of energy! 
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I would recommend a bonded bullet for the 270.  140 gr or above.  Take which ever gun you are the most comfortable with.  Either gun will do it.  For the 270 take a look at the Winchester XP3 150 gr @ 2950.  Good numbers for a 150 out of a 270 factory load if you don't want to hand load.  The first elk I shot was a bull with a 140 gr hornady interlock in my 270.  You shouldn't have any problems with that gun.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/21/2008 at 04:53
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Originally posted by RifleDude RifleDude wrote:

The 150 Partition should work fine, Coby.  Better still would be the Swift A-Frame, Trophy Bonded, Barnes Triple Shock, Winchester XP3, etc., all of which are latest generation, controlled expansion bullets with either bonded cores or solid copper expansion zones.  The Partition is designed to shed its non-bonded front core, so it expands rapidly, then the rear section stays together.  The other, more modern designs retain a much greater % of their weight, and given the same sectional density, the bullet that retains more weight and doesn't expand too rapidly will always penetrate better.  Try a selection of good, tough 150's and use the one out of this class that groups well in your rifle.
   Ditto  I've recoverd  bits of a 160 Partition from a cow. The cow is dead, but I felt it expanded to fast, as it did not penetrate very far. It hit only flesh, Had it hit bone first, I feel I would not have recoverd the animal.  Bullets such as the Barnes, Swift etc. won't stop at the bone, but rather penetrate through to the vitals. There are many opinions on this, but I do speek from expierience.  Happy Hunting! Wink 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/21/2008 at 06:28
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i wont say a word every body thinks im crazy when it comes to bullet selection so i will stay out of this one
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/21/2008 at 07:12
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Have at it Pyro----what's up ? Come'on--270's are your bag..
 
BTW -- why not the 338,,, 270 shoots just a little better groups ? I'd use the 338 and a stout 225 gr or 250 gr round. After all, a cow elk is still a big animal . I think given that CK1106 has both, he should err on the side of a 30 caliber or bigger round for more wallop.  
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I feel the 270 with a stout 150 gr of almost any of the bonded construction bullets would do just fine, I also believe that 1000s of elk have probably been taken with core-loks, inter-locks & power-points.
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Originally posted by pyro6999 pyro6999 wrote:

i wont say a word every body thinks im crazy when it comes to bullet selection so i will stay out of this one
 
 We don't think you're crazy, Hunter. You know what works for you and choose your shots accordingly. Some of us just prefer a little more margin of error in the penetration department when dealing with elk, and don't really mind paying the high prices premium bullets command.
 For what it's worth, an old, veteran Idaho outfitter once told me that he had never seen a .277 caliber 150 grain Partition fail to completely punch through elk on broadside shots on dozens of them. He liked it a lot.
 
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i know the .270 will kill any elk on the planet inside of 1000yds if the guy pulling the trigger knows what he's doing thats not the issue, my issue is that first sierras werent good enough and now all of a sudden the "gold" standard for big game bullets isnt good enough either, makes me scratch my head and wonder where this world is heading, whats next the barnes tsx or swift a frame isnt good enough either? and i wanna know who started this craze of you need a .338 to kill elk effectively crap too, come on its an elk, i would be willing to wager a large chunk of the family farm that more elk have been killed by the 30-30 than all the other magnums combined and now all of a sudden its like elk hunting is like going to africa, you need at minimum a .338 for elk b.s .257 roberts is my elk min, of couse im not taking a 500yd shot with it but in the trees or even out to 300yds with a good bullet no worries here, any thing in the 30-06 case family is plenty for elk, the 30-30 in the timber excellent hell i hunted with a guy who used a .338 but carried a mossberg marine mag 12ga with slugs in the timber, i will conceed defeat im not going to push sierra bullets for anything anymore, confidence helps and if somebody gets that from a $50 a box swift then fine, i can understand it. the .270 will take anything in north america not an issue he doesnt need a .30 cal plus for elk, make one good shot and watch it fall, make a bad shot with the 50bmg and see how far it will run, just like anything else.
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Originally posted by pyro6999 pyro6999 wrote:

i know the .270 will kill any elk on the planet inside of 1000yds if the guy pulling the trigger knows what he's doing thats not the issue, my issue is that first sierras werent good enough and now all of a sudden the "gold" standard for big game bullets isnt good enough either, makes me scratch my head and wonder where this world is heading, whats next the barnes tsx or swift a frame isnt good enough either? and i wanna know who started this craze of you need a .338 to kill elk effectively crap too, come on its an elk, i would be willing to wager a large chunk of the family farm that more elk have been killed by the 30-30 than all the other magnums combined and now all of a sudden its like elk hunting is like going to africa, you need at minimum a .338 for elk b.s .257 roberts is my elk min, of couse im not taking a 500yd shot with it but in the trees or even out to 300yds with a good bullet no worries here, any thing in the 30-06 case family is plenty for elk, the 30-30 in the timber excellent hell i hunted with a guy who used a .338 but carried a mossberg marine mag 12ga with slugs in the timber, i will conceed defeat im not going to push sierra bullets for anything anymore, confidence helps and if somebody gets that from a $50 a box swift then fine, i can understand it. the .270 will take anything in north america not an issue he doesnt need a .30 cal plus for elk, make one good shot and watch it fall, make a bad shot with the 50bmg and see how far it will run, just like anything else.
 
All perfectly valid points, but don't readily dismiss the other side to the argument.  There's a vast difference between "good enough" and "better."  Nobody said that any particular bullet design isn't "good enough," only that as technology changes, there are always better options being made available to the hunter.  You should use equipment you have faith in.  Bullets that worked well decades ago will work just as well today, but that doesn't mean there haven't been legitimate improvements made since then.  A model T will still get you to the grocery store and back, but not as comforably and safely as a car made in 2008.  Any halfway decent bullet directed to the right place will result in a dead animal... eventually... and maybe even immediately.  You never know, because any two animals of the same species and physical size are likely to react totally differently when shot, for totally inexplicable reasons.  However, when you're talking about larger, tougher animals, I personally would rather have a bullet that fully penetrates and stays together than a bullet that is designed to expand rapidly and tends to shed weight.  A tougher bullet with controlled expansion will always out-penetrate a fast expanding bullet of the same weight and SD... always!  I am not a believer in the "energy dump" theory, and I don't subscribe to the idea that a bullet should stay in the animal.  I want a bullet to do it all -- provide great accuracy and at the same time expand up to a certain point, yet stay together AND exit, so if I do have to track the animal, I have a better blood trail.  Increasingly, the newer premium bullet designs are inching ever closer to that "do it all" ideal, so why not use them if they are readily available?  Even if for argument's sake the "advantage" is only miniscule, why not use every advantage you can out of respect for the animal and out of consideration for how expensive hunting has become?  I don't know about you, but during a deer or elk season, I might fire 5 shots tops all year before I've reached my legal limit, so how can 5 bullets of any brand/type ever be that expensive?  Your bullet is arguably the single most important piece of gear you use on a hunt, so why be ultra concerned about cost?  Even when using the most expensive bullet made, you won't spend even $15 during the whole season on bullets?   Every minute I spend hunting is precious, and when I've already spent a couple grand on a trip, I don't care if a bullet costs $5 each, if it reliably performs on the animal I'm going after and shoots good in my rifle, I'll use it.  With what hunting costs me, I don't even think about the price of any bullet made.  But again, that's me.  I don't deny that trainloads of elk have been killed with a .30-30, but that doesn't make the .30-30 an ideal elk rifle.  There have been tons of deer killed with a .22LR too, but that certainly doesn't mean the .22LR is an ideal deer rifle.  When the older generation cartridges, bullets, etc. were introduced, there weren't better options available so people used what was available.  Now, there is, so I say why not use every advantage at your disposal when you have the option?  As technology continues to change, I'm going to continue trying and using the best stuff I can get my hands on as long as we're talking about something as insignificant to the total cost of a hunt as bullets.
 
If this was about deer, I would agree, any number of bullets works fine on deer.  But elk are large, tough creatures and the same bullet that works fine on deer doesn't work quite as well on elk.  I've talked to many guides who have literally seen hundreds of elk fall to shots from just about any combination of bullet and caliber made, and they all tell the same story -- elk are one of the 2 or 3 toughest North American game animals in terms of remaining alive for long periods of time after the shot.  They aren't in the same league as deer.  Even the few elk I've killed have proven that to me.


Edited by RifleDude - April/21/2008 at 22:28
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the reason bullet cost is an issue to me in any type of hunting is simple and its for more than one reason to be honest, have a wife and 2 boys and a third child on the way and so that means i have day care bill two car payments and a house payment and i only work so many months a year, and the biggest reason probably is the fact that i shoot a fair amount and i dont see any reason to shoot a practice load, so i cant see dropping $50 a box for each of my rifles and do that 3-4 times a year for each thats expensive practice. once again i just cannot see why the partition is a bad choice, i would think the partition would be better on elk than the accubond is, but i may be wrong there, i would use the accubond on elk myself, i have a lot of faith in that bullet and its not to expensive to shoot either.
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Originally posted by pyro6999 pyro6999 wrote:

the reason bullet cost is an issue to me in any type of hunting is simple and its for more than one reason to be honest, have a wife and 2 boys and a third child on the way and so that means i have day care bill two car payments and a house payment and i only work so many months a year, and the biggest reason probably is the fact that i shoot a fair amount and i dont see any reason to shoot a practice load, so i cant see dropping $50 a box for each of my rifles and do that 3-4 times a year for each thats expensive practice. once again i just cannot see why the partition is a bad choice, i would think the partition would be better on elk than the accubond is, but i may be wrong there, i would use the accubond on elk myself, i have a lot of faith in that bullet and its not to expensive to shoot either.
 
Dude, right now you're planning to build an underground shooting range and buy a Kimber as your next rifle  Laughand you're worried about fitting a $50 box of bullets into your budget that will last at least 10 years if you use it for elk hunting only??????  
 
The solution to the cost of practice loads is practice with the inexpensive bullets, then once you find a load that works well, try small lots of a premium bullet of the same weight using the same or similar load data that gave you good accuracy with the inexpensive bullets.  You should fairly quickly find a load with the new bullet that gives acceptable accuracy without using too many bullets.  Use the premium bullets on elk and larger size animals and use your existing bullets on deer so you won't need the premiums for all your rifles.  If you don't plan to hunt anything larger than deer anytime soon, then carry on with what you're currently using and don't worry about it.  If you use the premiums only for elk sized animals and larger, and assuming $50 a box is a valid number, that $50 box will then last you at least 10 years worth of hunting, so that's $5 a year.  If that's too expensive given your budget, then perhaps hunting is too expensive to begin with and you should think about selling your rifles!Wink
 
No, again, there's nothing wrong with the Partition; it's a fine bullet.  However, it was designed to expand rapidly and shed the front core, keeping the rear section intact.  Some of the newer designs expand to the same diameter, yet stay together so that they don't fragment into tiny pieces, while at the same time penetrate deeper because of higher retained mass.  Plus, some of the newer designs do all this while providing better average accuracy than the Partition.  Taking nothing away from the Partition, I'd still say those are improvements over it.
 
Let's assume that the various premium bullets were the exact same price as the bullets you're currently using.  Would you try them then?
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The last Elk I shot was 2yrs ago, taken with a 30-06 and a 180gr tsx. The hunt consisted of eight of us, funny thing is none of the eight chose a .338.  The calibers that were in camp were 1-270, 1-7mag, 1-308, 1-30-06, 1-300wsm, 1-300win., 1-300wby., 1-300ultra. Six out of the eight of us shot bulls, 300win & 300ultra went home empty.  The point is that there are a number of calibers suitable for elk.  I personally thought the 06 was about minimum for my taste, but the 270, 7mag & 308 proved just as effective. When I go again I just might choose the .338 or 35 whelen or I might go the lighter route and choose the .280. 
 
 Choosing your caliber and bullet is almost as much fun as the hunt itself.
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Originally posted by pyro6999 pyro6999 wrote:

i wont say a word every body thinks im crazy when it comes to bullet selection so i will stay out of this one
    Come on pyro, are you crazy! that bullet would'nt, Oh...sorry, you didn'nt post anything. I jumped the gun. Big%20Grin 
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probably not why fix what aint broke?  call me hard headed stupid whatever you please but how do you argue with 100+ yrs of success between the nosler partition and the sierra game king?? i was talking to my brother in law about all this stuff this morning on our way to the job site this morning and he doesnt understand why .338 is now starting to be considered a minimum for elk either, he shoots a .270 and he too has killed elk, and he told me that he thought elk were tough after the shot, but he is convinced that white tail up here are tougher, he said every deer he has shot in the body up here has run further than any elk he's ever shot, he shot a buck 8 yrs ago a nice one that went 200lbs plus and he shot it 4 times with his .270 only because he thought he missed and that deer took 4 150gr .270 bullets and still ran 150yds with no heart. while we are on the subject i too have experienced similar results, i have shot 5 bucks in the last 6yrs and none of them died inside 100yds of the hit, my elk dropped after 100ft. i have seen perfect shots with the .300wsm not down a nice buck antelope have a tendency to do this as well, placement placement placement thats my advice, be confident in what you carry and be effective with it, premimum bullet or not bad shots end the same way, im going to leave with that.

Edited by pyro6999 - April/22/2008 at 22:06
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Originally posted by pyro6999 pyro6999 wrote:

i wont say a word every body thinks im crazy when it comes to bullet selection so i will stay out of this one
 
 
 Ha!
 I KNEW you couldn't stay out of this one!
  All it took was one little "beehive stirring " post on my part, too!   Stiring%20The%20Pot
 I am soooo evil....
 
          
 
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you are! im to much of an ass to stay out of this one, i should just conceed and call it a day, its all opinion really, nobody will see things 100% the same way, im a left winger and ted is a right winger, the only thing we can agree on is to disagree on this subject, i do like the accubond for my 6.5rem it hasnt shot very well in my .264 or my .280 so i stayed with the sierras in those two rifles, my 22-250 didnt like the ballistic tips either shoots the varminters just fine though.
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Well I'm definitely going to use a quality bullet for this hunt.  I have a new box on 270 150 gr winchester XP3.  I bought those before I started reloading.  I would like to use something I loaded on this hunt instead of factory ammo.  Not sure why, but I think Pyro had it right with his "satisfaction" comment.  The only bullets that I have found locally are the Barnes TSX and the Nosler partition.  No A-frame, unfortunately.  The barnes are less expensive than the partition, for some reason.  If you guys suggest the barnes over the partition, I will probably load the barnes, and if they shoot decent, I will go with them.  I imagine if I can get at least an inch and a half groups, that would be good enough.  
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Success on elk will be more determined by the hunter`s judgement, the proper bullet used and shot placement, as opposed to what caliber, from say a .25 all the way up to a 338! No doubt, we all have our individual caliber preferences for elk!........Some will swear by a fast .25 such as a 257 Wby, others will swear by the 6.5`s, the 270`s, 7mm`s, the 30`s, 8mm`s and the 338`s! With the right bullet, they`ll all work! Perhaps some a little better than others, but they`ll all work!...............The best round is really determined by individual field experiences, with some experiences based on trial and error. Any good hunter should prepare himself for any eventuality and carry the right rifle/caliber and ammo suitable for his terrain, whether it be longer range open plains hunting or close brush hunting OR as on some hunts, BOTH of these conditions may occur on the same hunting trip! Along with having a good ARC rangefinder for making difficult uphill or downhill shots much easier, a hunter must also know his bullets MV and BC in order to know the hold over or hold under depending on the range............The bottom line is this! Any hunter who is properly prepared, will be successful with any of these calibers, as opposed to any hunter who may be carrying the ideal elk caliber, but who is not prepared and/or uses poor judgement with range/shot placement and bullet selection!...........My money would be on an experienced, properly prepared elk hunter, using a .25, a 270, a 7mm or a .30, compared to an unprepared, poor judging dope or an inexperienced/unprepared person using a .338 mag!!
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if all you have to chose from is the x and the partition more than likely the x will give you better accuracy and is pretty stout bullet.
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Originally posted by pyro6999 pyro6999 wrote:

probably not why fix what aint broke?  call me hard headed stupid whatever you please but how do you argue with 100+ yrs of success between the nosler partition and the sierra game king?? i was talking to my brother in law about all this stuff this morning on our way to the job site this morning and he doesnt understand why .338 is now starting to be considered a minimum for elk either, he shoots a .270 and he too has killed elk, and he told me that he thought elk were tough after the shot, but he is convinced that white tail up here are tougher, he said every deer he has shot in the body up here has run further than any elk he's ever shot, he shot a buck 8 yrs ago a nice one that went 200lbs plus and he shot it 4 times with his .270 only because he thought he missed and that deer took 4 150gr .270 bullets and still ran 150yds with no heart. while we are on the subject i too have experienced similar results, i have shot 5 bucks in the last 6yrs and none of them died inside 100yds of the hit, my elk dropped after 100ft. i have seen perfect shots with the .300wsm not down a nice buck antelope have a tendency to do this as well, placement placement placement thats my advice, be confident in what you carry and be effective with it, premimum bullet or not bad shots end the same way, im going to leave with that.
 
I wasn't talking about cartridge selection, only bullet selection.  I believe the right bullet for the job makes up for marginal cartridge choices.  My only comments about cartridges were in reference to the .30-30 example you gave to illustrate the fact that significant technology improvements have been made over time.
 
How many elk have you killed? 
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Originally posted by RifleDude RifleDude wrote:

Originally posted by pyro6999 pyro6999 wrote:

probably not why fix what aint broke?  call me hard headed stupid whatever you please but how do you argue with 100+ yrs of success between the nosler partition and the sierra game king?? i was talking to my brother in law about all this stuff this morning on our way to the job site this morning and he doesnt understand why .338 is now starting to be considered a minimum for elk either, he shoots a .270 and he too has killed elk, and he told me that he thought elk were tough after the shot, but he is convinced that white tail up here are tougher, he said every deer he has shot in the body up here has run further than any elk he's ever shot, he shot a buck 8 yrs ago a nice one that went 200lbs plus and he shot it 4 times with his .270 only because he thought he missed and that deer took 4 150gr .270 bullets and still ran 150yds with no heart. while we are on the subject i too have experienced similar results, i have shot 5 bucks in the last 6yrs and none of them died inside 100yds of the hit, my elk dropped after 100ft. i have seen perfect shots with the .300wsm not down a nice buck antelope have a tendency to do this as well, placement placement placement thats my advice, be confident in what you carry and be effective with it, premimum bullet or not bad shots end the same way, im going to leave with that.
 
I wasn't talking about cartridge selection, only bullet selection.  I believe the right bullet for the job makes up for marginal cartridge choices.  My only comments about cartridges were in reference to the .30-30 example you gave to illustrate the fact that significant technology improvements have been made over time.
 
How many elk have you killed? 
 
We can have fun arguing our favorite cartridges and bullets all day long, and no harm is done, but I hope nobody reading this thread even tries to dispute that particular sentence.  Pure Gospel.... 
 
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Originally posted by RONK RONK wrote:

Originally posted by RifleDude RifleDude wrote:

Originally posted by pyro6999 pyro6999 wrote:

probably not why fix what aint broke?  call me hard headed stupid whatever you please but how do you argue with 100+ yrs of success between the nosler partition and the sierra game king?? i was talking to my brother in law about all this stuff this morning on our way to the job site this morning and he doesnt understand why .338 is now starting to be considered a minimum for elk either, he shoots a .270 and he too has killed elk, and he told me that he thought elk were tough after the shot, but he is convinced that white tail up here are tougher, he said every deer he has shot in the body up here has run further than any elk he's ever shot, he shot a buck 8 yrs ago a nice one that went 200lbs plus and he shot it 4 times with his .270 only because he thought he missed and that deer took 4 150gr .270 bullets and still ran 150yds with no heart. while we are on the subject i too have experienced similar results, i have shot 5 bucks in the last 6yrs and none of them died inside 100yds of the hit, my elk dropped after 100ft. i have seen perfect shots with the .300wsm not down a nice buck antelope have a tendency to do this as well, placement placement placement thats my advice, be confident in what you carry and be effective with it, premimum bullet or not bad shots end the same way, im going to leave with that.
 
I wasn't talking about cartridge selection, only bullet selection.  I believe the right bullet for the job makes up for marginal cartridge choices.  My only comments about cartridges were in reference to the .30-30 example you gave to illustrate the fact that significant technology improvements have been made over time.
 
How many elk have you killed? 
 
We can have fun arguing our favorite cartridges and bullets all day long, and no harm is done, but I hope nobody reading this thread even tries to dispute that particular sentence.  Pure Gospel.... 
 


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