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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/19/2007 at 22:35
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anyone shot one and what is the recoil like?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/19/2007 at 22:43
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Great caliber, with awesome ballistics, probably the best of the 6.5mms.  Recoil is tame, about like a 270win. and ammo, compared to larger Wby. calibers is affordable.  If you reload, you reload, you will expand your bullet selection dramatically.  Good luck and a great caliber and hope you get it in a Wby. rifle.  The best in my opinion.

Edited by Dolphin
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I have one and the recoil is less than an .06.  I love mine, its hard to pick up anything else when I go hunting whitetail.
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great thanks guys. I ordered it and then i was told that it was like shooting the Weatherby 7mag and I thought that I may have made a mistake. I feel better about my choice now. I ordered a nikon monarch 3x9x40 scope and I am going to get S&K mounts (I Think have not decided yet) can't wait to get it together at take it to the range. by the way the exact rifle I ordered is the Vanguard Deluxe.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/20/2007 at 07:10
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Great rifle with a gorgeous stock.  The stock itself, as far as a wooden stock cannot be beaten as far a fit and finish by anyone and is very close to the Mark V stocks.  Great rifle.  Let us know how the set-up comes together.  I have had a hankering for the Deluxe model, have a synthetin 300Wby., but I am a sucker for a wooden stock.  Roy Weatherby always wanted people to hunt his rifles and not put them in a safe or display them.  Hence, I beleive it was C.J. McElroy, founder of Safari International and I believe former editor of Field and Stream, who used his 300Wby. to shoot almost every big game species on every continent.  They say his rifle is in his trophy room and barely resembles a rifle.  I know, synthetics and laminate stocks, with all things being equal, have the potential for being more accurate, especially with climate changes and inlclimate weather, but you gotta love those beautiful wooden stocks.
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now for the bad-- a 257 isn't a 6.5 and it's the worst of the overbore except maybe the 6 mm series in this case capacity. expect a barrel life of less than 1000 rd. recoil depends of weight and drop in the comb, but usually on par with a 25-06 in the same wt. class. Has nine locking lugs and  you will be lucky if 3 are engaging at the same time without lapping. Stock design is mediocre at best, woods tend to be highly figured, which look good but are very bad for hard use. 25's are saved by the good bullet designs offered today and not much else.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/21/2007 at 09:51
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Originally posted by Dale Clifford Dale Clifford wrote:

now for the bad-- a 257 isn't a 6.5 and it's the worst of the overbore except maybe the 6 mm series in this case capacity. expect a barrel life of less than 1000 rd. recoil depends of weight and drop in the comb, but usually on par with a 25-06 in the same wt. class. Has nine locking lugs and  you will be lucky if 3 are engaging at the same time without lapping. Stock design is mediocre at best, woods tend to be highly figured, which look good but are very bad for hard use. 25's are saved by the good bullet designs offered today and not much else.

 

Now for the good.  There is tons of talk on multiple forums about Wbys. and the freebore.  That is a design issue related to the high pressures developed with the Wby. calibers and is necessary for the proper development or pressure before the bullet hits the lands a grooves and begins its rotation, otherwise ballastics and accuracy would be comprised.  Don't you think that after all these years and discussion, that if it were a bad thing, Wby. would have changed it.  They have competent engineers, unlike the forum so called experts that comment on this.  Secondly, the 1000 round issue regarding the barrels is a myth propagate throughout all of these forums.  Usually it is confined to the higher power cartridges, such as the 30-378, but even those have been recorded to have seen as many as 5000 rounds, while maintaing adequate hunting accuracy.  Thats not to say, if you take one to the range on a daily basis and shoot a string of 100 round in 1 hour, without adequate cooling of the barrel, it won't last 1000 round.  C.J. McElroy used a 300Wby. to shoot almost every species of big game on every continent with a 300Wby., without changing barrels.  When finished, they say his gun, barely resembles a rifle.  Wooden stock, that is kept in his trophy room.  Former editor of Field and Stream.  Roy wanted his rifles hunted, not put up in a safe or on display.  Use them and enjoy them.  You can always get another stock.  So, I would whole heartedly, discount this 1000 round life of the barrel myth, nothing further from the truth, escpecially, if you sight it in and hunt it only the rest of your life.  You probably would not put 250 rounds through it.  As far as the overbore issue is concerned.  As with most magnum cartridge, not only Wbys., they tend to be inefficient, as there is a law of diminishing returns on your investment in the powder loaded in the cartridge.  And when you say its not a 6.5 mm (I am not sure which 6.5, Remington Mag. or Winchester Mag.), no its not.  Ballistically, it is so far superior there is not even a comparison.  Now, while it is superior, you could easily argue, not at typical hunting distances, but, the overbore on those cartridges are probably not far off from the Wby..  So if you want to spend your money on those diminishing returns, that is a preference, that is of course personal.  Read, the article in Shoot Times, look through the archives and you will have a better appreciation for the caliber.  Layne Simpson knows his rifles and calibers.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/21/2007 at 11:11
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i agree with today's technology the only way to shoot a barrel out in 1000 rounds is because of abuse by the operator. in any caliber
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/21/2007 at 11:44
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Originally posted by Dale Clifford Dale Clifford wrote:

now for the bad--  Has nine locking lugs and  you will be lucky if 3 are engaging at the same time without lapping. Stock design is mediocre at best, woods tend to be highly figured, which look good but are very bad for hard use.

I agree on this. Take the bolt out of any Wby and look at the lugs. If it is engaging you will see rub marks. Lapping one of these bolts in would be a very tedious chore. Better off letting them work themselves in through use. You look at most of the factory two lug bolts out there; Rem, Ruger, Browning, Win, etc, you would find a lot of this, too. These actions are far easier to lap in, though. For hunting just shoot them in my book.

The Wby stock is a very subjective thing, looks wise. I know that it took awhile to grow on me. The standard stock is very good looking to me now. Even with the obnoxious recoil of the .378 it seems to do a good job recoil wise. Lazermark is butt ugly....................

 

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/21/2007 at 12:23
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I am sorry if weatherbys are a piece of kaka. Fortunately for weatherby the stock cartridges they make are very close to their factory chambers. If one takes empty brass or FL resized, a slow burning powder and not hot enough primer , the cases will collapse along the shoulder lines. Usually a neck sizer die or partial resizing takes care of this- and the shooter who doesn't and buys factory won't notice. Dolphin you need to shot more a read less gun mags. Both the 257 weatherby, the 270, and the 7 are extremely  (in that order) hard on barrels. The 257 I had only went 800 rds, but I'll admit the 270 did go the full 1000 rds. (mainly because I changed to reduced loads.) By the way my uncle did shoot every species on earth with a FNC sears and Roebuck 270 so stop name dropping a stick to your experience.  In fact the lands of any caliber shooting 85 + grs. of powder will wear the lands substantially, I've even had to rebarrel my 416s. Pyrro I hope your statement on barrel life does not reflect everything you know about barrel life. Both of you should get an over bore a test it for yourself. To me abuse is only shooting a rifle 250 rds. (whats that-you know the gun goes boom when you pull the trigger?) Abuse is 1000 rds full auto thru one of my select fire weapons. Abuse is falling down mountains side and having the horse land on the rifle. (abuse on the horse).



Edited by Dale Clifford
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/21/2007 at 12:40
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+1 on the partial resizing. I have no experience with the Wby calibers, but I get much longer life in belted cases.

The .257 recoil is nothing to talk about and in a Mark V is sweet shooting, don't know about the Vanguard. The one I have shot had a Zeiss 3-9 and was 1 moa.



Edited by tahqua
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/21/2007 at 13:26
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Originally posted by Dale Clifford Dale Clifford wrote:

I am sorry if weatherbys are a piece of kaka. Fortunately for weatherby the stock cartridges they make are very close to their factory chambers. If one takes empty brass or FL resized, a slow burning powder and not hot enough primer , the cases will collapse along the shoulder lines. Usually a neck sizer die or partial resizing takes care of this- and the shooter who doesn't and buys factory won't notice. Dolphin you need to shot more a read less gun mags. Both the 257 weatherby, the 270, and the 7 are extremely  (in that order) hard on barrels. The 257 I had only went 800 rds, but I'll admit the 270 did go the full 1000 rds. (mainly because I changed to reduced loads.) By the way my uncle did shoot every species on earth with a FNC sears and Roebuck 270 so stop name dropping a stick to your experience.  In fact the lands of any caliber shooting 85 + grs. of powder will wear the lands substantially, I've even had to rebarrel my 416s. Pyrro I hope your statement on barrel life does not reflect everything you know about barrel life. Both of you should get an over bore a test it for yourself. To me abuse is only shooting a rifle 250 rds. (whats that-you know the gun goes boom when you pull the trigger?) Abuse is 1000 rds full auto thru one of my select fire weapons. Abuse is falling down mountains side and having the horse land on the rifle. (abuse on the horse).

i only own one gun that isnt an overbore! and if what you are saying is true then i would expect that every 220 swift would burn its barrel out faster than a 22-250 because its 200 fps faster, so if thats true then i would expect a 25-06 of a 25wssm to burn out almost as fast as the weatherby, congrats to your uncle! i have a 300 mag thats still got the same barrel on it and its 25 yrs old and has more than a 1000 rounds through it and its still accurate, its not a weatherby but its still an overbore!

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/21/2007 at 14:06
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Please go to the Browning web site and review the graphs on the 22-250 and the 223 wssm before you eat your foot.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/21/2007 at 14:22
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yeah ive seen it and i dont agree with that at all!!  have you ever heard of media hype!!! its what killed the 220 swift years ago!! read the precision reloading section in shootingtimes magazine! rick jamison was asked that same question his response was this  "A moderate cartridge like the 30-06 can produce measurable throat wear with a surprisingly few number of rounds being fired just because the throat wears doesnt mean the rifle has lost its ability to shoot with accuracy a barrel will continue to shoot well even with the erosion in the throat." he also goes on to say that the .204 the 220swift the 22-250 the 223wssm all would have almost equal throat and barrel wear across the board with equal shot taken as long as they arent continuely fired while hot! i have pulled my reloading manuals out and taken a look at the weatherby loadings as well as the win mag and rem ultra mags, the speeds are all relative as well are the pressures and bullet weights, so a better statement maybe that overbore rifles wear a barrel out at a different rate than there standard sized counterparts.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/21/2007 at 14:38
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Then, today, we have short, fat and overbore. There is long, fat and overbore. Back than it wasn't nearly as extreme and I've even seen that the old .264 WM was hype regarding barrel wear, don't know if it's true.

Jamison is one of those writers I do pay attention to, though. He has reloaded and shot countless times through a huge variety of guns and therefore worth something IMO.

BTW, on the Browning page, the WSSM is chrome lined and the 22.250 is not. Apples and oranges..................

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/21/2007 at 14:40
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Originally posted by tahqua tahqua wrote:

Then, today, we have short, fat and overbore. There is long, fat and overbore. Back than it wasn't nearly as extreme and I've even seen that the old .264 WM was hype regarding barrel wear, don't know if it's true.

Jamison is one of those writers I do pay attention to, though. He has reloaded and shot countless times through a huge variety of guns and therefore worth something IMO.

BTW, on the Browning page, the WSSM is chrome lined and the 22.250 is not. Apples and oranges..................

i know i read that too, thats why i think its all about sales!! they said that about the 220 swift too!! i know people who have swifts that are 40yrs old and shoot them a lot and still havent had the barrel wash out! the 264 i think was the same story!

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/21/2007 at 15:42
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A list of the swifts I'v "shot out"

Ruger 77 Atkinson barrel

Ruger #1 Shilen barrel

Remington 700 varmit remington barrel

currently working on a Sako-Douglass

list of 22-250's

Sake III sako barrel

Ruger #1 stock then a Pac-Nor

Remington Lieja barrel

Weatherby Vangaurd

Ruger 77

The 204 swill go to about 2500 depending on how hot its loaded. Don't you have any work of your own done other than quoting magazine hacks?

The 233 WSSM I had was so difficult to neck trim I only kept it for 400rds. By the way I keep records and use erosion gauges. Swifts will last as long as a 223 if you load them down, maybe thats what your friends are doing- do you have experience in this regard?

The comparison, in the browning graph is directly to the point. It shows that the 233 Wssm must be chromed lined to have the same barrel life as a 22-250 which browning then only puts at about 1500. This was one of the main concerns when the round was introduced, erosion in the leades shortening barrel life! 25-06 is short lived again overbores do have shorter lives than the same case using the next sized bigger bullet.

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Originally posted by fbombs fbombs wrote:

great thanks guys. I ordered it and then i was told that it was like shooting the Weatherby 7mag and I thought that I may have made a mistake. I feel better about my choice now. I ordered a nikon monarch 3x9x40 scope and I am going to get S&K mounts (I Think have not decided yet) can't wait to get it together at take it to the range. by the way the exact rifle I ordered is the Vanguard Deluxe.

I think you will be very happy with this set up. It will handle nice, the glass isn't too big and the caliber will set you apart......at least from the folks in my deer camp.

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i keep track too, and it seems either a. i have had really great luck or b. you havent! too bad for you! i have rifles in those calibers that have worn out more scopes and not cheapo ones either than barrels.
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Here are some truths to ponder from a geezer:
1. The 244 H&H is faster, flatter and MUCH OLDER than the the 240 WB. It is a HUNTING rifle so bbl life is a ho-hum subject.(after I've shot 500 sighting rounds and 500 Antelope/Deer I may have to get a new bbl.)
2. The 300 H&H is the most efficient 30 cal magnum in fps/gr of powder.(per Ken Waters) Also the oldest and the FAR least probable to have feeding problems.(See current Handloader)
3. The Ruger 375 WILL NOT equal or exceed the 375 H&H with any loads of the same pressure range. If "hotrodded" a bit the old H&H will leave it in the dust. Contrary to Ruger hype: X grains of powder behind X grains of bullet in cases of near equal capacity in bbls of equal length will have insignificent velocity differences.(See current Handloader)
4. There have been no recorded cases of a hunter (not some dude) ever being eaten or stomped cause he/she "short stroked" an H&H (or any other real magnum)
Sooooo, the geezer wonder why do I need a 30-06 or 308 action length in a magnum rifle that should weigh at least 9 pounds all up
(if that's too heavy stop "supersizing" or go to the gym)
The geezer thinks that all the WMs WSMs and WSSMs are just another way to create false product differentiation and get your money.
Maybe the new 30 TC is worth a look as it promises 30-06 performance in a 308 length case (no Virgina a 308 is not equal to a 30-06) and the ICON really looks like a NEW rifle rather than a rehashed steel tube or mauser action.
I suggest if you shoot a lot and fry bbls, buy a Savage in 22-250 as you can change and headspace bbls with a few simple tools and a headspace gauge.
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in case you forgot the win mag are all based of the H&H case so how does that make you any better?
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I don't read "better" in my post. I just ask why? Read the new Handloader it really puts to rest the case shape BS that has been "a fact" for too many years. Trading in your H&H to buy a WM or WSM or WSSM is like leaving your wife to marry your Mother-In-Law.
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Originally posted by rootmanslim rootmanslim wrote:

I don't read "better" in my post. I just ask why? Read the new Handloader it really puts to rest the case shape BS that has been "a fact" for too many years. Trading in your H&H to buy a WM or WSM or WSSM is like leaving your wife to marry your Mother-In-Law.

 

whats your point, we are talking about barrel life and you hijack the tread with this??

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This all started with the .257 Wby. The H&H is grandaddy to all of the original WM's. Ditto the the belted RM's and of course the Wby's. I like all of them for hunting rifles. I am slow to warm to the newer, fatter, shorter, longer, blahblahblah magnums. I am sure this will change, too.  After all they have no belts and this is a good thing, IMO. The important thing to me is that the .257 Wby is a sweet shooting caliber and it is somewhat unique compared to most of the deer guns I see. Barrel wear doesn't matter in my deer guns.
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Originally posted by tahqua tahqua wrote:

This all started with the .257 Wby. The H&H is grandaddy to all of the original WM's. Ditto the the belted RM's and of course the Wby's. I like all of them for hunting rifles. I am slow to warm to the newer, fatter, shorter, longer, blahblahblah magnums. I am sure this will change, too.  After all they have no belts and this is a good thing, IMO. The important thing to me is that the .257 Wby is a sweet shooting caliber and it is somewhat unique compared to most of the deer guns I see. Barrel wear doesn't matter in my deer guns.

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