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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/19/2008 at 13:42
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I have a Sako 75 in 7mm RM that shoots .7 MOA consistently out to at least 600 yards.  I have a 6.5x20 Zeiss on it that I love.  I shoot 160 accubonds and 168 bergers(longer range).  My muzzle velocity is right at 3000 fps with my 24.4" barrel.  It's all stock except a bedding job.  The only downside is the weight, which is about 9.5lbs with 8lb rifle and 22oz scope and then rings.  It's actually heavier than that with the sling and tripod attached.
 
I was thinking about a lighterweight rifle for certain situations, esp when just hunting deer/antelope.  My research has led me to a Tikka(Price, accuracy) in 25-06(less recoil, similar trajectory as 7mm in 110/115 gr Accubond/Bergers), with a Zeiss 3-9x40 Conquest.  This gun would be right at 7lbs, but still only have a little more recoil than a .243 and less than my older son's .270 and .280.  I have a 10 year old that will need a light weight easy to shoot rifle for a couple years until he can grow into a true deer/elk caliber.
 
I would get the syn/stainless, as I am rough on my guns and hate to see pretty wood get marred.  I like the look of this gun in this config, but am not a fan of the small ejection port on the tikka or the feel of the stock, but then again havn't found a lightweight gun with a synthetic stock that I like better for under $1k.
 
Any other things I should consider in this package?????
 
P.S.  As mentioned this would mostly hunt mule deer(up to 300lbs), antelope, and the occasional elk(up to 400 yds).
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/19/2008 at 16:53
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Originally posted by bkondeff bkondeff wrote:

I have a Sako 75 in 7mm RM that shoots .7 MOA consistently out to at least 600 yards.  I have a 6.5x20 Zeiss on it that I love.  I shoot 160 accubonds and 168 bergers(longer range).  My muzzle velocity is right at 3000 fps with my 24.4" barrel.  It's all stock except a bedding job.  The only downside is the weight, which is about 9.5lbs with 8lb rifle and 22oz scope and then rings.  It's actually heavier than that with the sling and tripod attached.
 
I was thinking about a lighterweight rifle for certain situations, esp when just hunting deer/antelope.  My research has led me to a Tikka(Price, accuracy) in 25-06(less recoil, similar trajectory as 7mm in 110/115 gr Accubond/Bergers), with a Zeiss 3-9x40 Conquest.  This gun would be right at 7lbs, but still only have a little more recoil than a .243 and less than my older son's .270 and .280.  I have a 10 year old that will need a light weight easy to shoot rifle for a couple years until he can grow into a true deer/elk caliber.
 
I would get the syn/stainless, as I am rough on my guns and hate to see pretty wood get marred.  I like the look of this gun in this config, but am not a fan of the small ejection port on the tikka or the feel of the stock, but then again havn't found a lightweight gun with a synthetic stock that I like better for under $1k.
 
Any other things I should consider in this package?????
 
P.S.  As mentioned this would mostly hunt mule deer(up to 300lbs), antelope, and the occasional elk(up to 400 yds).
..................................With the sling and your tripod attached, I`ll bet you`re running at about 10.5 to 11 lbs with that rig!! Is it no wonder for quite awhile now, why I have been a huge supporter of the hi-performing, more compact and lighter rifles here on this forum. Lugging around that extra rifle weight from a physical standpoint, gets real old,,real fast!! If only you could maintain that performance that you now have and take about 3 lbs of weight off!! You could get a much lighter scope than the 22 oz Zeiss for your 7mm mag and remove the tripod as well to lighten it up to under 9 lbs and use that for hunting elk.
 
For 300 yard deer and antelope hunting, the 25-06 is a very good cartridge. But when you throw into the mix elk at 400 yards, the 25-06 imo, is too light for my liking. I presume this rifle is for your 10 year old?? It appears that way.
 
If so and for your 10 year old and for YOU TOO, a more fun, a lower recoiling, a lighter, an easier more compact carrying/packing rifle and something he can grow into and keep into adulthood, would be ideal. It would also need to be suitable for deer, antelope to 300 yards and elk out to 400 yards, though try and get closer for elk. Did I get everything in there?
 
Here are my suggestions which offer the best overall compromising, while capable of doing everything you wish. Tikka is a fine rifle, but like you I`m not keen with its small ejection port either.
 
Remy Model 7; 7mm/08 or the 308 Win. w/ 20" barrel.......I think they are available in the stainless/synthetic, but I`m not sure on that. Weighs in at about 6.5 lbs before the scope and rings. Very good a quick handling rifle.
 
Savage F10 scout; 308 Win and I think the 7mm/08 too w/the 20" barrel. Weighs about the same as the above Remy M7. No stainless.
 
Howa Ranchlands aka Weatherby Vanguards. Available in the 7mm/08 and the 308 w/20" barrel/Hogue stock at about 7 lbs. No stainless.
 
Weatherby Vanguard in their youth models; 20" barrels, synthetic stocks but no stainless.
 
Now for my personal favorite because I own one in a 300 WSM with a laminate stock and blued barrel.......Ruger M77 Frontier Target Grey stainless; 35.5" OAL, 16.5" barrel; laminate stock, the new LC6 trigger, a shorter 12.5" LOP for very fast shouldering, weighs 6.75 lbs and is available in the 7mm/08 and in the .308. It is the only rifle to offer a conventional over the receiver scope mount and/or the scout scope option. For great versatility, I do both with mine. For some added fun, I may even add a red dot scout to my scout and conventional scopes I have now. Don`t let its smaller and shorter LOP dimensions fool you. Whether for a small boy, medium, or even a much larger sized 6'3" 240 lb. adult like me, the Frontier carrys beautifully while being the best and quickest handling bolt carbine on the market, bar none! I`ve handled em all. None are quite like the Frontier! Whether in the brush, timber, flat open plains, hills, mountains, the Frontier will feel right at home.........Regardless of the caliber choice, your overall velocity loss for the shorter tube by 31% vs a 24" will be around 3.5% to 4.5% as my own chrony results with two 24" 300 WSM`s have shown. Other articles I`ve read concerning other cartridges chambered in the Frontier, including both the 7mm/08 and the 308 have confirmed this.
 
For me, I`ll gladly give up 3.5% to 4.5% in overall velocity vs a 24" barrel in return for the same accuracy, while gaining a quicker handling, an easier carrying/packing rifle and maintaining nearly the same ballistic performance, that no game when hit, will never know the damn difference anyway! BTW! The reload chrony results from my shorty 300 WSM are to say the least,,,,VE-WEEY stimulatin!!ShockedShocked....... Wink ...............My vote is the stainless Ruger Frontier in either the 7/08 or the 308.
 
  
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/19/2008 at 17:01
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Squeezer, you should put a bunch of that stuff in your sig line and then just say "see sig line" for you post. 

Think how much more time you would have.  Big Grin

I agree with Squeeze though, light rifle are the way to go for hunting 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/19/2008 at 17:06
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Originally posted by supertool73 supertool73 wrote:

Squeezer, you should put a bunch of that stuff in your sig line and then just say "see sig line" for you post. 

Think how much more time you would have.  Big Grin

I agree with Squeeze though, light rifle are the way to go for hunting 
................Thanks for the tip. However what I state may be different at different times..I need the typin practice anyway!!!....And, I don`t mind killing some time!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/19/2008 at 17:44
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a .260 or a 6.5x55 swede is also a pair of wonderful rounds to consider, if you really want to stay in the .25 cal a vanguard in a .257wby mag may be your ticket, the 25-06 is not to light for elk, a good quality 110-125gr bullet in a 25-06 is a fine choice for elk, my father in law killed many wyoming elk with his 25-06 and many people think its to small, its all about placement. another nice rifle to consider is one of my favorites the 6.5remington mag, short case with magnum performance with recoil similar to a 25-06 but with .270win performance.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/20/2008 at 01:57
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+1 on Squeezer. I had a heavy barrel rifle that become "old" very quickly. I had the barrel re-profiled to normal hunting specs and it is a nice carry rifle again.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/20/2008 at 12:13
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Alot of people associate the heavier barrels with better accuracy (NOT TRUE) and then transfer that logic to a hunting rifle, thinking they will have the better accuracy! Then when they go a hunting and have to lug a heavier rifle around, that is when some buyers remorse sets in!
 
Heavier barrels are designed for better or stiffer stabilization against barrel writhe or resonation and do NOT give better accuracy. They also dissipate heat somewhat better in the case of more rapid fire.
 
Heavier barrels are ok for hunting from a stand, hunting varmits from a hood top, from a truck etc. with very little hiking and climbing. For those reasons along with bench/target use, heavier barrels are fine. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/20/2008 at 12:28
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Sure they do.  If heavier barrels were not more accurate then the bench rest shooters would be using hunting contour barrels on their guns.  Reducing resonation will equal more accuracy.

But then again we are not talking about a bench rest guns. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/20/2008 at 12:43
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Originally posted by supertool73 supertool73 wrote:

Sure they do.  If heavier barrels were not more accurate then the bench rest shooters would be using hunting contour barrels on their guns.  Reducing resonation will equal more accuracy.

But then again we are not talking about a bench rest guns. 
..............Go to........http://www.rifleshootermag.com/............and watch the audio/video titled "Accuracy in Rifle Barrels" with Craig Boddington.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/20/2008 at 13:29
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Ya well go to a shooting match and see how many shooting are using hunting barrels.  
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/20/2008 at 14:30
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I agree that for most hunting applications that a sporter contour is the way to go.

I also believe there is good reason everyone I see on the line uses a heavy contour barrel for serious target work, whether rapid or slow fire. My target guns are all heavy barrel and compared to my sporters in the same calibers, are more accurate.
I have been using Varmint Al's website for quite some time and consider it to be an excellent resource. Here is a sample of his engineering expertise regarding various muzzle diameters on a 6mm. http://www.varmintal.com/aflut.htm
Take note of the difference in vertical barrel movement when going from .8 to 1.222 in projected to 100 yards.
I would not worry about it on a hunting rifle and stick with a sporter contour, especially a 25.06. What a nice gun to carry!
 
 
 
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Thanks for the insights. 
 
I did think seriously about the .260 since the Accubond comes in that caliber in 130gr, but I prefer the flattr trajectory of the 25-06 at 3100+ fps.  I will want to shoot farther than 300 yards once I get a lot of practice in with the gun so it trumps the .260 and 7mm-08 there.  I would go to a 6mm-284 but I want a factory chambering.   
 
I am still leaning toward the Tikka due to weight, chambering, and accuracy.  My son's .280 is a Ruger, which feels very good on my shoulder but their reputation for accuracy is not good unless you spend a LOT of time developing a load and only feed it that load.  Plus, the Tikka is 6lb 4oz, which is less than just about anything except the Kimber, which is too expensive.
 
Thanks for the feedback, I like to double check my logic.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/20/2008 at 16:59
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Might want to check out the Remington 700 SPS in 7mm 08, has a 24" barrel and is very accurate. The 7mm 08 out performs the 308.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/20/2008 at 18:21
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Originally posted by supertool73 supertool73 wrote:

Ya well go to a shooting match and see how many shooting are using hunting barrels.  
...........Not many at all. The heavier tubes are for the bench, not ideal for the hunter who hikes and climbs. The hunting barrels are not any more accurate than the heavier barrels as the reverse is also true. But Boddington is right on regarding the mis-conceptions that many have, thinking a heavier barrel is automatically more accurate.
 
Heavier barrels are used for the matches primarily because they can be customized to bed better, they cool faster and are stiffer to help combat the barrel resonance. The latter issue is why I use a barrel de-resonator on my lighter hunting barrel; and it sure works.  
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I have a 30 06 Kimber Montana topped off with a Swarovski PH 2.5-10x42 with Talley LW low rings. I'm not sure how much it weighs but it is a very light weight rig. The 30 06 caliber runs the gamut from light weight very fast ammo to the heavier stuff suitable for larger game.
Sam


Edited by SamC - November/20/2008 at 19:59
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/20/2008 at 20:26
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Originally posted by donaldkallen donaldkallen wrote:

Might want to check out the Remington 700 SPS in 7mm 08, has a 24" barrel and is very accurate. The 7mm 08 out performs the 308.
higher b.c and s.d attribute to this, the .260 will give the 7-08 a run for the money also.
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Originally posted by bkondeff bkondeff wrote:

Thanks for the insights. 
 
I did think seriously about the .260 since the Accubond comes in that caliber in 130gr, but I prefer the flattr trajectory of the 25-06 at 3100+ fps.  I will want to shoot farther than 300 yards once I get a lot of practice in with the gun so it trumps the .260 and 7mm-08 there.  I would go to a 6mm-284 but I want a factory chambering.   
 
I am still leaning toward the Tikka due to weight, chambering, and accuracy.  My son's .280 is a Ruger, which feels very good on my shoulder but their reputation for accuracy is not good unless you spend a LOT of time developing a load and only feed it that load.  Plus, the Tikka is 6lb 4oz, which is less than just about anything except the Kimber, which is too expensive.
 
Thanks for the feedback, I like to double check my logic.
the .280 doesnt require any more work to find a solid load than any other round, i love my .280, the key is the right weight of bullet for your barrels twist. the .280 will most likely shoot any 150gr bullet with a nice charge of h-4831 pushing it just as well as any other load will.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/21/2008 at 00:43
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Originally posted by pyro6999 pyro6999 wrote:

Originally posted by donaldkallen donaldkallen wrote:

Might want to check out the Remington 700 SPS in 7mm 08, has a 24" barrel and is very accurate. The 7mm 08 out performs the 308.
higher b.c and s.d attribute to this, the .260 will give the 7-08 a run for the money also.
 
 
I agree,  But I would still go with the .308.  Just more out there for it.  7-08, .243 are all necked down .308s.  At the end of the day the .308 is a better  "All Round choice"
 
IMHO
 
 Mike
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I would think that the main advantage of a heavier barrel is extended barrel life. Because it is thicker it takes longer to wear out.....only joking guys. I would think that because a heavier barrel does not heat up with 5 quick shots it will extend barrel life. The barrel will also "walk" less on the target with 5 or so successive shots.
There has to be a reason why varmint and target rifles have thicker barrels.
So maybe a one shot accuracy is not it, but 5 shots?
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Originally posted by Steelbenz Steelbenz wrote:

Originally posted by pyro6999 pyro6999 wrote:

Originally posted by donaldkallen donaldkallen wrote:

Might want to check out the Remington 700 SPS in 7mm 08, has a 24" barrel and is very accurate. The 7mm 08 out performs the 308.
higher b.c and s.d attribute to this, the .260 will give the 7-08 a run for the money also.
 
 
I agree,  But I would still go with the .308.  Just more out there for it.  7-08, .243 are all necked down .308s.  At the end of the day the .308 is a better  "All Round choice"
 
IMHO
 
 Mike
 
the .260 is also a necked down .308 and i would take the 7-08 or the .260 myself the only advantage the .308 has in my book is the wider variety of bullet weights a reloader has to choose from.the s.d and b.c #'s make a 140gr 6.5mm bullet fired from a .260 better than a 160gr 7mm bullet and also better than 180gr .308 diameter bullet, which is why i have backed away from 30 cal rifles, why go with 30 when 6.5 will do the same thing with a smaller bullet.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/21/2008 at 16:48
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Originally posted by pyro6999 pyro6999 wrote:

a .260 or a 6.5x55 swede is also a pair of wonderful rounds to consider, if you really want to stay in the .25 cal a vanguard in a .257wby mag may be your ticket, the 25-06 is not to light for elk, a good quality 110-125gr bullet in a 25-06 is a fine choice for elk, my father in law killed many wyoming elk with his 25-06 and many people think its to small, its all about placement. another nice rifle to consider is one of my favorites the 6.5remington mag, short case with magnum performance with recoil similar to a 25-06 but with .270win performance.

I can't believe you would admit to owning anything with .270 win. performance. Yippee Poker

Edited by trigger29 - November/21/2008 at 16:50
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Originally posted by trigger29 trigger29 wrote:

Originally posted by pyro6999 pyro6999 wrote:

a .260 or a 6.5x55 swede is also a pair of wonderful rounds to consider, if you really want to stay in the .25 cal a vanguard in a .257wby mag may be your ticket, the 25-06 is not to light for elk, a good quality 110-125gr bullet in a 25-06 is a fine choice for elk, my father in law killed many wyoming elk with his 25-06 and many people think its to small, its all about placement. another nice rifle to consider is one of my favorites the 6.5remington mag, short case with magnum performance with recoil similar to a 25-06 but with .270win performance.

I can't believe you would admit to owning anything with .270 win. performance. Yippee Poker
well its not quite up to the .270wsm's performance level sorry.
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trigger - I thought the same thing!  Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/25/2008 at 10:49
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I didn't bother reading all of this, but the 25-06 is a GREAT deer cartridge
I shot quite a few deer with one growing up, never noticed the recoil
shot it and a 243, whatever dad handed me... deer always went DOWN and stayed there

Tikka T3 Stainless lite would be a great choice
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