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243 1000 fps

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/10/2016 at 11:47
the islander View Drop Down
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Remington 7400 - 243 cal. I was talking to my brother on 1000 fps. does it matter what grain to use to get the 1000 fps? Also, at what distance the the bullet drop?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/10/2016 at 12:20
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Okay, so... a few questions:

1.  What is the application?
2.  You want a subsonic 243, correct?
3.  Will you be shooting suppressed?
4.  What is the barrel twist rate?


I have a 243, love it, but push it faster rather than slower.  My fist concern will be twist rate to stabilize the bullet for subsonic use.  
In general, since you are not looking for velocity, the larger the bullet, the better (since  1/2  mass x velocity squared gives you the kinetic energy, and the v is set, making the m bigger makes the KE bigger.)

And if you aren't running suppressed, it is mostly a wasted adventure.  Subsonic is much louder than in movies, even suppressed it is not hollywood quiet most of the time.

In the end, I am still wondering about application.

Lastly, it looks like that rifle is a semi-auto, I know nothing of the action but do know that taking an action meant for supersonic ammo and putting subsonic through it often results in failures to extract, eject, feed, and generally  function reliably.  Subsonic rounds produce far less gas pressure than do their supersonic counterparts, and the actions often don't have enough pressure to operate correctly.

In short, the whole thing might be fraught with peril, it might be worth doing, but it probably won't be nearly as easy as you might think.


Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/10/2016 at 13:30
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Ditto RC's assessment! Without a can it really isn't worth doing. Even with a can it's suspect. IMHO!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/10/2016 at 13:40
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7400 would never cycle a 1000fps .243.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/10/2016 at 13:45
the islander View Drop Down
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thanks for the reply Rancid Coolaid,

you mentioned some great questions, I will have to dig deeper.

When you mentioned the application, are you meaning, : Hunting, sport?

it will be used for hunting. 

it wont be suppressed.

I don't know the twist rate. but from your reply, twist rate is a factor on fps, correct? so if the twist is tighter, the fps is faster?

plus, does the grains matter in the fps rate? or does the twist rate?


Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/10/2016 at 13:51
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Barrel twist rate needs to be faster to stabilize the bullet due to the slow speed the bullet is traveling. If your not suppressing the rifle its really not worth the trouble of using a subsonic to be honest.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/10/2016 at 14:13
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are you asking what it takes to shoot a distance of 1000? or get your bullet speed below 1000?  Seems to be a language barrier......
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/10/2016 at 15:29
the islander View Drop Down
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please forgive the misunderstanding and thank you for everyone's patience . I am not a ballistics guy

Weapon: remington 7400 -  243 rifle

does it matter on grain of bullet to have 1000 fps. or is it all depending on the rifle? 









Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/10/2016 at 17:31
Alan Robertson View Drop Down
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Howdy the islander,
Welcome to the OT forum.

Making subsonic and reduced load ammunition is tricky business. If done incorrectly, a rifle can be wrecked and safety put at risk.

Are you already proficient at hand loading ammunition?

Perhaps we are trying to overcome a language barrier, but your question about bullet weight alone and your responses to questions imply that you are naive and really don't know anything about hand loading, or loading reduced velocity ammo. Forgive me if I am wrong. I do not choose these words to insult you, but only to help you. There are many here who can help you, but I must stress that you MUST have a high level of understanding about what you are attempting.

.243Win @ 1000fps might be achieved with a variety of bullets and powder combinations, but probably can best be achieved with the heaviest weight bullet which will stabilize in your bore. A heavy bullet @1000fps can best be reached by using one of the double- base pistol powders, but that low speed is achieved with non- typical low chamber pressure and runs the risk of making a load which will stick a bullet in the bore, or create a "detonation" condition, either of which can harm your rifle, or you and bystanders.

If you already are an accomplished hand loader, then there is a wealth of information available online about making reduced load rifle ammunition. My best advice is to learn all you can from all online discussions of reduced loads and then learn some more.

By all means, if you see fit, keep the info and questions coming, as this can turn into a discussion which will benefit many people. Again, what I've said is only to help you and not cause you embarrassment, or insult.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/10/2016 at 17:50
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Excellent comments/advice, Alan
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/10/2016 at 18:06
Alan Robertson View Drop Down
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The Remington 744 .243 is listed as having a 1 in 9 1/8" twist rate.

http://www.exteriorballistics.com/reference/pdf/Twist%20Tables_Rifle.pdf

That twist rate would be enough to stabilize a 100 gr. bullet at standard .243 velocities, but 1000 fps is far below standard. A 100 gr. bullet would not stabilize out of your bore @ 1000 fps.
An 87 gr. 6mm  bullet is only marginally stable @ 1000fps.
Full stability @ 1000 fps can be achieved with a 70 gr. .243 bullet, or lighter.

I do not know which powder and load would get you to 1000 fps with a 70 gr. bullet.

I've re-read your responses and think that you must be a young fellow with his first .243, just learning about shooting high- powered rifles. A young man with a creative mind, I might add, exploring the idea of low- velocity ammo.

Ps edit: Just saw your comment KB- many thanks- that means a lot coming from you.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/10/2016 at 21:31
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http://www.imrpowder.com/PDF/Trail-Boss-data.pdf

Have shot some sub .243 use trailboss due to case load a little dirty but nice and easy to load never a double charge possible.




would share this with you.



You have had some great responses to your post!


Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/10/2016 at 21:35
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Alan is right about SEE and getting one lodged, you want to make sure each hits the target and they all feel the same... 

I have loaded a heavy gr. .30 sub I think it were a .220Gr and only 1/3 of the bullet actually cleared the bore I loaded them down too low as a starting load could have caused issues. Didnt take into consideration cold bore cold day cold case.... DUMB DUMB DUMB DUMB on my part...I still have the bullet as a reminder.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/11/2016 at 15:55
Alan Robertson View Drop Down
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.338LAPUASLAP- That's good advice about making sure each bullet hits the target and each shot feels the same.

I've been learnin' the ropes about reduced loads for close to 40 yrs. and have stuck bullets in bores more than once. I even bought a solid 1/4" brass rod at a weldor's supply just to have something to reasonably drive stuck bullets out of bores.

If a shooter really wants to get the full versatility from a high- power rifle, they'll learn about reduced loads. I have good accurate loads for .30-06 that are suitable to take anything in Oklahoma, from rabbits and squirrels, to buffalo and black bear.


"Beware the man with one rifle."
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/11/2016 at 17:34
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I have only been loading for say 10 yrs but the loading I do is to get the max out of the bullet rifle combo. Supressed or Unsupressed finding a few bullets that do both Sub and Super well with the rifle and maximum stability.

Some subsonic (maybe 75%) some supers loaded pretty hot (25%) never factory, never middle of the road.  I have found to get more than the book safely by just learning the rifles and lockups...

I know guys that only shoot "The Load".

I also know guys that load Trailboss every day and in every way (as recommended) and are safe in doing so by following the posted link.  

(I myself have tried double base and triple base high energy powders like n560-n570 and have found them to be my favorite but still use a donut powder like Trailboss due to bulk density) 

Trailboss is a great way to get comfortable with "Reduced" loads...

Extremes of loading can be really tested with the .243WIN.  Can be fast can be slow can be light weight can be heavy weight.  You must know the stability as posted above!!!

Not as many loads as for the .458WM but the .243WIN. has some wide range of capabilities as well.  

I will share that the .243 almost made it as a military cartridge and did very well in the FBI trials and was proven to be able to have very effective terminal ballistics.




Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/23/2016 at 04:45
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No offense but I'd personally abandon that idea especially with a Rem 7400. I'll play heck trying to get the action to cycle with a load that reduced.
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