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.223 or .308?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mike650 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/30/2008 at 15:22
Originally posted by Tip69 Tip69 wrote:

 
 Also, mine is not chinese.... its Russian I think. 
 


I used to have a Russian SKS (stamped 1950) but just got bored of it and sold it.

If your interested in seeing what you have try this link...

http://yooperj.com/SKS.htm

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cheaptrick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/30/2008 at 15:31
 
How accurate is your SOCOM shoot, RC??   
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silver View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote silver Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/30/2008 at 16:21
Then there is the magazine thing... You can get M-14 magazines or FAL magazines.  After that it gets harder. 
 
Here is some rock solid advice.  Buy an AK and take some classes.  See what last through the classes that you like; then buy.
"If we weren't all crazy we, We would go insane."   Jimmie Buffet

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote redneckbmxer24 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/30/2008 at 16:51
Originally posted by supertool73 supertool73 wrote:

I have looked into this a lot.

You do not need an FFL to get a full auto.  An FFL alows you to sell guns.  A class 3 FFL allows you to sell full auto guns.

All you need to do is go to a class 3 dealer pay for the gun and they will give you the  proper paper work which you will send to the BATF with $200 and they do an extensive background check on you.  Once you pass (which will take several months) then you can go pick up the specifc full auto gun you bought.  It is completely registered and controlled.

Also a civiallians can only buy a full autos that were made and registered prior to the 1986 full auto ban.  Chances of you finding a full auto AR in .308 is very slim.  On top of that a full auto M-16 will cost you upwards of $20,000.  You would be better off looking for an M14 as I have never seen a full auto AR in .308 that is civialian legal.
http://www.impactguns.com/store/machineguns.html they are a class 3 dealer here in utah, check out there site.  Full auto guns are insane expensive.

If you have a person trying to sell you a full auto gun.  Run away very fast.  The gun is probably illegal and it is a felony to own one without going through the BATF and a class 3 dealer.  Either that or the guy converted it to full auto on his own which is also a felony.  FOr all you know it might be a BATF agent doing a sting.  I have heard of them doing stuff like that all the time. 

Not to long ago a guy was convicted and threw in prison because his AR which he borrowed to another guy who was shooting at the time had a the sear wear out and it shot a burst at a shooting range.  Someone called the authorties and the owner of the gun got convicted of owning an illegal full auto gun.  They flat out threw him in jail. 

So if you are getting a full auto, make sure to do it through a class 3 dealer.  They will be able to set you up so it is done right.
 
my last form 4 item took 23 days from the time i mailed it until i got approval back. really doenst take too long at all.
 
they didn have 308 AR's back in 86 or before, so you will not find one period. auto's, or any NFA pre 86 parts are extremely expensive, but you gotta pay to play. every now and then you find a good deal, i just got a HK MP5A2 for $7500, which wasa STEAL, i can sell it any time i want, and atleast double, if not almost triple my $$. NFA guns also keeping going up in price, and are one of the few firearms that are actually investments.
 
its very easy to find out if the gun is legal, just ask to see their form 4, or 3, or 5, whever they have it on.
 
converting a gun to full auto isntexactly a felony, doing it illegally is. you can get a conversion kit made before 86 and put it in a new lower, or you can get a registered lower manufactured before 86, andneither of these methods are illegal, but both will cost you the same ammount. about $6000-10000 for the conversion kit, or registered lower ALONE.
 
 
If guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns, I'll be only one of millions!!!
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redneckbmxer24 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote redneckbmxer24 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/30/2008 at 16:57
Originally posted by cyborg cyborg wrote:

Thanks guys, I really appreciate the advice and all of your input. I admittedly know little about what our government wants out of us. It seems to me that we as law abiding citizens should be capable and able to own and carry such weapons without the red tape.
I have looked into this and I can get a conversion for the AR but only by jumping through alot of hoops. Cencored   Isn't that a crock of dung????? Not gonna put myself through all of that. If the time comes when all guns are illegal, then I will just have to break a few laws at that time.  Evil%20Black%20Rifle
 
as long as you can afford it, its not hard at all. you simply find the conversion kit, call NFA they will mail you the form 4 (or your dealer will have it if buying from a dealer, or transferring to another state) fill out the paperwork, and send it in. in a month, maybe more, maybe less, you get your paperwork back, and get to experience how expensive full auto's are to shoot... pull the trigger, there goes 15 bucks.
 
 
If guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns, I'll be only one of millions!!!
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cyborg View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cyborg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/30/2008 at 17:33
Well just my luck. The extractor broke 30 rounds in and the fella that sold it to me was there. After closer inspection the firing pin was also damaged. I now own a DPMS which is what he was trying to sell me in the first place. It's been worked over with a trigger upgrade and some fine fitting. Then there's the price difference and he gave me some additional for my troubles. I guess we'll see how this goes, better I hope, I won't be able to make the range again for a week or so.
Anyways here's a picture of the "NASTY BITCH" (yes that's her name)
  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cyborg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/30/2008 at 17:50
I'm thinking that a Burris FFII ballistic plex would be a good fit here. What do you guys think?
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Dale Clifford View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dale Clifford Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/01/2008 at 07:56

have close to 10k 308 rds thru several armalites without a problem, usually when you see a damaged firing pin in semis its due to shooting some type of mil surplus that have very hard berden primers, although you would think they should be set up to handle surpllus, most of the ar type 308s today are more like a precision rifle. If shooting surplus is the plan initially LAR or Cetme types are more robust. mil surplus 308 is loaded in a very wide range of pressures, some of the Porteguese stuff is so hot you don't wont to use it. Even Nato head stamp shows a wide range, one of the reasons LARs work so good is the adjustable gas system which allows this to redirect the gases that are (did) rip up the eagle you tried up initially. A reloaded round will usually blow the primer in an ar when loaded to the same pressure as some of the military stuff.

the burris will be disappointing it has limited eye relief and vignettes around the edge, semis need even more eye box than a bolt ever thought of, and its usually better to go to a lower variable range than  one would normally do to get this advantage.

this is a nice rifle-- get a good scope-- 2.5x10 NF, 4x14 mk4, or IOR, or 1x4 USO.

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cyborg View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cyborg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/01/2008 at 08:04
Thanks Dale. I have alot of logged rounds with AR type rifles using iron sights, this is a first for me using this platform with optics. I really appreciate your advice here. I hadn't considered that there could be a difference, that would make eye relief an issue.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rancid Coolaid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/01/2008 at 08:48
Lots O' fun!


I too would go for a better scope than the Burris.  A nice rifle like that deserves a nice optic.  And, like Dale said, don't get too much power, 14-17X is about all one really needs at .308 ranges.

As you probably well know, the sky is the limit with ARs.  You can get a nice, comfy new grip, a new rear end with LOP and cheek adjustments, different internals, new chromed bolt, new paint job, new everything.


Now that you have the gun, the REAL spending starts.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cyborg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/01/2008 at 08:54
I am looking into a new compensator and the piston actuator. I'm planning to leave the gun as is color wise. Although, I can take a trip over to Columbus and have it camo dipped for about 175.00 Mossyoak Break-up is a great pattern.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Skunk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/01/2008 at 21:32
Originally posted by Rancid Coolaid Rancid Coolaid wrote:


The .308 is a great round in an accurate gun and is quite fun in semi-auto.  Unfortuantely, the Tool is (for once) right that full auto .308 is tough to come by and expensive as hell to obtain. 


ah, is someone still mad because the Tool disagreed with Mr. Coolaid?
Let me give you my two scents worth
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mike650 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mike650 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/01/2008 at 21:39

”Be curious, not judge mental.”    -Walt Whitman
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rancid Coolaid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/02/2008 at 09:16
Originally posted by Skunk Skunk wrote:

Originally posted by Rancid Coolaid Rancid Coolaid wrote:


The .308 is a great round in an accurate gun and is quite fun in semi-auto.  Unfortuantely, the Tool is (for once) right that full auto .308 is tough to come by and expensive as hell to obtain. 


ah, is someone still mad because the Tool disagreed with Mr. Coolaid?



Nope.
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tahqua View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tahqua Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/02/2008 at 18:22
.308 in a black gun is great, mine is an HK91!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote koshkin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/02/2008 at 18:58
Just read through this thread.  Interesting info.

A few comments:

The only AR-type rifle I have is chambered for 6.5Grendel which is a very nice little round.  Here in California you have to butcher your AR a little since you can't have both a pistol grip and a detachable magazine.  Mine had a lot of different scope on it over time.  Looking back, the best overall fit was IOR 2-12x32.


On 223 vs 308:  while 308 is undoubtedly a more powerful round, keep in mind that unlike the military, civilians are not constrained in their choice of bullets.  Black Hills makes a load with 60gr Partitions, Federal has a load or two with TBBCs, etc.  A better bullet goes a long way toward making the cartridge a better killer.  If trouble strikes, I can carry a whole lot more 223 ammo than 308 ammo on me.   The only 223 rifle I currently own is a little Kel-tec SU-16. It takes AR-15 mags, weighs 5.5lbs, has a piston gas system and does not jam.  There have been a couple of problems with the firing pin on it, but I have spares and can maintain it without tools.  Is it as good as a proper AR? no, but I live in California, remember?



I do have a 308 rifle, but it is a boltgun, which is where 308 belongs (in my thouroughly uneducated opinion).


On SKS: I have never heard SKS referred to as a jamamatic before.  These rifles generally have a reputation for being uite reliable.  I can not speak for Chinese ones, but I have a Romanian and a Yugo and I have yet to have a misfire in either one of them.  SKS would not be my choice for a self-defense rifle, since I have better options, but it would certainly work.  Still if you like 7.62x39 AK-type rifle of some sort is not a bad way to go (I have a Saiga carbine which I like quite a bit).

ILya
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HuntMaster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/02/2008 at 19:16
Amazing Koshkin,
 I can't imagine what the difference is in a rifle with both a pistol grip and detachable mag. Are pistols classified the same way?
 A firearm goes boom only when the trigger is pulled. Either by a sane person or a madman.
In my 43+ yrs, I have never seen a firearm walk up to someone and kill them.
 I feel for you concerning these ridiculous laws. We can only hope to get some reasonable, conserative people running this country and it's states someday, and stop catering to the minority .
Move to Alabama. We would be glad to have you, and you would love our gun laws. Plus, the cost of living is considerably less.
 A little hot though.
Derek


Edited by HuntMaster - October/02/2008 at 19:18
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mike650 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/02/2008 at 19:56
Originally posted by koshkin koshkin wrote:



 Here in California you have to butcher your AR a little since you can't have both a pistol grip and a detachable magazine.


I feel your pain brother!! I have a pre-ban ar15 rifle and wish I purchased a carbine model as well.  Guess that will never happen while living in the "Golden State". Sad
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pyro6999 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/02/2008 at 22:19
couldnt you have a thumbhole stock?? that would seem more natural to grip than that funky deal they make you use.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mithran Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/02/2008 at 23:46
Originally posted by pyro6999 pyro6999 wrote:

couldnt you have a thumbhole stock?? that would seem more natural to grip than that funky deal they make you use.
 
No, a thumb hole still conspiculously sticks out below the magazine well.
 
The actual law states that if your centerfire rifle can take a detchable box magazine you cannot have any of the following.....
 
... a pistol grip to include thumb holes
... a collapsable or folding buttstock that will allow the firearm to be fired in a collapsed or folded position
 
or
... a flash suppressor.
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