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.223 or .308?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/28/2008 at 09:30
cyborg View Drop Down
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Guys I am gonna do something that I had thought that I wouldn't do. Get my FFL and purchase a GASP!!!!! "BLACK RIFLE" The FFL thing scares the living BEJESUS out of me. I think that will be a tool for Identifying AR owners. That they will be the first in line for the confiscatory practices coming our way.
Thoughts please. I am leaning towards the .308
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/28/2008 at 09:42
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Cy, I always wanted an AR10 but couldn't afford one. Now , they're a little more affordable, but I keep buying .223 Ar's. I love 'em , plus they are cheap to shoot, and if things ever go to crap, you can store more ammo and carry more than for the .308.
 On a side note, my .308 battle rifle is an STG 58 ( or FAL to some folks ). It is heavy, rugged, and fairly accurate. ( 2" at 100 yds )
Derek 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/28/2008 at 09:50
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Thanks D. I have considered that aspect which is the reason for the whole "torn between two lovers" feelings here. I was trained with the M-16, and AR 15. I can shoot the living hell out of them. out to 500 meters with iron sights, and hit 98% of what I aim at. I just love the .308 though.
My thinking is that should the crap wind up on the fan blades though, there may be some .223 that can be easily obtained once the enemy is down. .308 will likely be available as well, just maybe not in the quantities. I'm talking survival here. The long term defense of family and freedom.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/28/2008 at 09:50
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6.5 creedmoor!
 
 
6.5 Creedmoor 120 gr. A-MAX
81492
Velocity (fps) / Energy (ft-lbs)
Muzzle 100 yd 200 yd 300 yd 400 yd 500 yd
3020/2430 2815/2111 2619/1827 2431/1574 2251/1350 2079/1151
Trajectory (inches)
Muzzle 100 yd 200 yd 300 yd 400 yd 500 yd
-1.5 1.4 0.0 -6.5 -18.9 -38.2


Edited by pyro6999 - September/28/2008 at 09:51
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/28/2008 at 09:53
cyborg View Drop Down
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Originally posted by pyro6999 pyro6999 wrote:

6.5 creedmoor!
 
 
6.5 Creedmoor 120 gr. A-MAX
81492
Velocity (fps) / Energy (ft-lbs)
Muzzle 100 yd 200 yd 300 yd 400 yd 500 yd
3020/2430 2815/2111 2619/1827 2431/1574 2251/1350 2079/1151
Trajectory (inches)
Muzzle 100 yd 200 yd 300 yd 400 yd 500 yd
-1.5 1.4 0.0 -6.5 -18.9 -38.2
No thanks. It is totally between the two calibres I mentioned.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/28/2008 at 10:07
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fine party pooper
the .308 then
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/28/2008 at 10:15
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The 308 has a versatility the 223 can't match ...varmints all the way up to elk ,etc... Downside- weight and cost .. but I'd still go 308
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/28/2008 at 11:57
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Why do you need an FFL to get an AR?  I'm gonna go against the flow here and say .223.  Save some pennies and grab a 16" LMT AR and don't look back.  .223 is light handy and plenty good.  I'm going to go out on a limb here and say all these people who say .223 is crap can't shoot, it's all about shot placement, there is no wonder pill, regardless of caliber.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/28/2008 at 13:12
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Originally posted by Mithran Mithran wrote:

I'm gonna go against the flow here and say .223.  Save some pennies and grab a 16" LMT AR and don't look back.  .223 is light handy and plenty good. 
 
Yep, I agree with Mithran.
LMT's and Colts are very nice for off the rack or you could do what I did and build your own.
     
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/28/2008 at 13:34
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223 or 308???.............Seems to me your choice should depend on how you`re going to use it and/or what you`re hunting if for that purpose. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/28/2008 at 13:47
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Why make such a hard decission just buy both. That way you got one for the little stuff and one for the big stuff. This way you can sleep better at night not have to worry about if you made the right decison. Any way I like the .308 caliber a little better.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/28/2008 at 15:19
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Having thought about this quite a bit more. I shall be getting the .308, as I am already geared in that calibre, and have a rather nice amount of ammo already. Planning to accumulate about 5,000 more rounds in the next two months. Should there be the need to accumulate spoils then there will also be available weapons too.

 
Please I'd still like very much to hear everyones opinions.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/28/2008 at 15:40
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Well FINE THEN!!!!!!!!!  
Mithran and I will take our opinions and go elsewhere!!!!
 
Wink 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/28/2008 at 15:43
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Don't feel badly brother. I will likely own atleast one .223 before I die. Evil%20Black%20Rifle
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/28/2008 at 15:46
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You going with G-Arms for the ammo?  
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/28/2008 at 15:51
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Yeah, I have right now 2,500 rounds. I Need more. Gonna keep the sniper rifle and sell the 7mm mag. Keeping the 30-06, and 300 win mags.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/28/2008 at 17:05
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DevilYou can make bullet jackets out of .22rf for the .223. As reloading become more "interesting" if he is so holy that his middle name can not be spoken becomes president, that may interest you more.  You can save three pounds with the poodle shooter.  Which if you need to move and have any sort of leg, foot, or knee problems will interest you.  It is easier and cheaper to feed.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/28/2008 at 17:23
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I liked the idea of getting both, an ar15 like the m4 and also getting a .308. Yippee
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/28/2008 at 18:46
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why are you getting a FFL to buy a AR? you can order one from anywhere off the internet, and just have it sent to your local FFL dealer to do the transfer, no FFL license needed.
 
as far as caliber, if you say you already have a "sniper rifle" why would you want a 308? with 223 you get faster follow ups, less recoil, less muzzle blast, and cheaper ammo.
 
if you want something a little more, for knocking down deer and such, after you have the 223, you could always get a 6.8SPC upper. and just use the same lower.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/28/2008 at 19:05
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Cy if you are going with the .308 then I would get either a bushmaster or a Rock River.
The instructors at Front Sight say they are the only two brands of AR-10s that they have ever seen finish a 4 day rifle classs.

The Rock River are actually based off the Bushmaster BAR-10 design and they supposedly did a couple of improvments.  
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/29/2008 at 13:12
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wondering about the FFL as well.  Don't you have to have business hours to have one now? 
 
I went a different route with my home defense... I have a SKS.  I like the 7.62X39 better.  If you want better than SKS, AK-47 would be next.  They are made to work in the sh*t so to speak.  I do need to stock up ammo.  was once up to 1500 rounds, but have shot a bunch since then!
 
Between the .223 & .308 - for me it comes down to do you want to kill or is just wounding ok?  If I wanted to kill, I'd go with the .308. I know I know...the .223 will kill, but I like the bigger boy when I'm serious!
 
Also, if I'm shooting out to 500 yds.... it isn't home defense anymore, and I'll use my '06 and a scope!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/29/2008 at 15:42
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Originally posted by Tip69 Tip69 wrote:

wondering about the FFL as well.  Don't you have to have business hours to have one now? 
 
I went a different route with my home defense... I have a SKS.  I like the 7.62X39 better.  If you want better than SKS, AK-47 would be next.  They are made to work in the sh*t so to speak.  I do need to stock up ammo.  was once up to 1500 rounds, but have shot a bunch since then!
 
Between the .223 & .308 - for me it comes down to do you want to kill or is just wounding ok?  If I wanted to kill, I'd go with the .308. I know I know...the .223 will kill, but I like the bigger boy when I'm serious!
 
Also, if I'm shooting out to 500 yds.... it isn't home defense anymore, and I'll use my '06 and a scope!
 
im sorry, but this just isnt very good advise.
 
who in there right mind would attempt to protect their life with a $100 chinese gun? SKS's are jam o' matic disposable rifles, and i'd pick up a stick to defend myself before i would a SKS.
 
a AK47 is a great reliable gun, more reliable than the AR... YES, more accurate though, hell no. the AK makes a great home D weapon.
 
ill take a AR-15 223 with 60, or 75GR TAP any day over a AR10, AK47, whatever for HD. those loads are both extremely high speeds, and very frangible, and will knock the crap out of somebody. plus with the lower recoil i can put rounds on target alot faster than somebody with a AR10, or AK.
 
and say they're wearing heavy clothing, or light armor you might ask. thats why the round in the chamber is 75GR AMAX TAP, next round is M855, next is 69GR SMK, then it repeats for a full 30 round mag. no matter what they're wearing, they're getting lead in them, plain and simple.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/29/2008 at 17:08
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Originally posted by supertool73 supertool73 wrote:

Cy if you are going with the .308 then I would get either a bushmaster or a Rock River.
The instructors at Front Sight say they are the only two brands of AR-10s that they have ever seen finish a 4 day rifle classs.

The Rock River are actually based off the Bushmaster BAR-10 design and they supposedly did a couple of improvments.  
Thanks, I appreciate the advice. I got the Armalite, I hope that wasn't a mistake.
I had heard good things about them. A buddy has the DPMS Black Panther. What are the typical problems with these two?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/29/2008 at 17:14
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Lots and lots of feeding issues.  Double feeds, stove pipes, failure to feed and such.  It seems like Armalite had a lot of problems with something in the bolt carrier breaking as well, can't remember what but it was talked about a lot on the Front Sight forum some time back. 

The DMPS worked better than the Armalite it only had feeding issues not breakages.  On AR-15.com it got so bad with people complaining about them that if someone posted a complaint about amalite's AR-10 it was immedietly deleted with threats of account deactivation.  I know a couple of the FS members got kicked off the forum for complaining about their AR-10s. 

I hope it works out for you.  One of the instructors says he got one that has worked pretty well after he did some work to it.     

Edited by supertool73 - September/29/2008 at 17:15
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/29/2008 at 17:21
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10-4 Thanks, I'll pass along the info. He hasn't had any problems as yet though. I hope that I'll be as lucky.
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