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22-250 Question

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/14/2009 at 16:39
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I have a heavy barrel savage chamebred for 22-250.  I have largely been shooting factory ammo out of it, but this time around I decided to make some handloads for it.  These loads will be used for taget shooting at the range and I will probably end up using Sierra MatchKing bullets or something similar.  I've had good luck with SMKs in other rifles, so I am leaning that way.  On the other hand, Berger Bullets look appealing as well.

Savage's 22-250 has a 1-in-12" twist rate.  What is the heaviest bullet it is likely to stabilize?

Sierra has a 60gr Varminter HP.  Berger has 60gr, 62gr and 64gr Match bullets with impressively high BC values.

Also, what powder would you recommend for 22-250 with the heaviest bullet that is likely to work?

Thanks
ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/14/2009 at 16:46
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60 grain will probably be the top end of what you can get to work.  50 to 55 would be better.  I used to load them for my buddy and his was 1-12 and 50 and 55 Vmaxs both worked pretty well.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/14/2009 at 16:58
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What powder did you use?

I have been trying to switch some of the reloading I do to spherical powders or to small kernel ones, so that I could throw them rather than weigh everything.

ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/14/2009 at 17:00
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I was using IMR 4064 and Varget.  We were actually going to start using BL-C2 for the exact reason you stated, but he sold his gun toward an AR and my 22-250 reloading days were done.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/14/2009 at 17:01
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H414 is smaller to and meters well, I use that in my .243 so I can run it through my progressive press.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/14/2009 at 17:10
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I agree with ST and would say 60gr is about as heavy as you will be able to run with a 1 in 12, but you might run some heavier.  My Ruger is 1 in 14 and loves 55 nosler bt's.  I am using 4064 but is a pain to meter, have not tried anything else yet.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/14/2009 at 17:22
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I just cooked up some handloads with BL-C(2) for my 308 and I use H414 for 7.62x54R (switching from H4350), so I have both of those powders and can try them.  

Wouldn't H414 be a bit slow for 22-250?

Also, have you used any of the Ranshot powders?  I think they are all spherical in shape.

ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/14/2009 at 17:39
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hmmm, maybe.  I just use it in .243 as a friend who reloads commercially for a living recommended it for my progressive press.  It has always worked well. 


Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/14/2009 at 17:40
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no ramshot for me.  I have for the most part always stuck with hodgdon, don't know why just mostly have. 

Looks like hodgdon lists 414 okay for the 22-250 so it would probably work okay.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/14/2009 at 17:57
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 I don't have any significant 22-250 experience, but I'd like to commend your decision to throw charges by volume rather than weight.
 
Here's why:
 A consistent weight will yield inconsistent volume from differing batches of the same propellant.
 Likewise, a consistent volume will yield inconsistent weight from differing batches of the same propellent.
 
I have come to believe that a consistent propellent volume  will give greater accuracy and more uniform pressures than consistent propellent weight among the individual cartridges in a given box of ammo, especially in fast-stepping, high-performance cartridges such as your 22-250.
 
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/14/2009 at 18:13
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Originally posted by RONK RONK wrote:

 I don't have any significant 22-250 experience, but I'd like to commend your decision to throw charges by volume rather than weight.
 
Here's why:
 A consistent weight will yield inconsistent volume from differing batches of the same propellant.
 Likewise, a consistent volume will yield inconsistent weight from differing batches of the same propellent.
 
I have come to believe that a consistent propellent volume  will give greater accuracy and more uniform pressures than consistent propellent weight among the individual cartridges in a given box of ammo, especially in fast-stepping, high-performance cartridges such as your 22-250.
 
 

I did some experiments with weighed vs thrown charges on my 280Rem using H4831.  With the Hornady powder measure I was using for thrown charges and PACT electronic powder dispenser for weighed charges, weighed charges proved to be a little more accurate.  However, this powder measure does not throw H4831 very accurately.  It also has a problem with VV N140 that I use (so far) in 7.62x54R for my Finn M28-76.  

It does throw BL-C(2) and H414 very accurately and I suspect it would be equally accurate with other spherical powders.

ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/14/2009 at 18:13
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Originally posted by supertool73 supertool73 wrote:

no ramshot for me.  I have for the most part always stuck with hodgdon, don't know why just mostly have. 

Looks like hodgdon lists 414 okay for the 22-250 so it would probably work okay.

I looked at Hodgdon's website and it looks like BL-C(2) yields very slightly higher velocities than H414, but by and large they behave very similarly.  Unfortunately, Hodgdon does not list any of the bullets I thought about using.  60gr V-Max does look interesting, so perhaps it is worth a try.

Interestingly, Berger website suggests using their 64gr and 62gr bullets with 1-in-12 twist.  Now, I just need to find a load recipe for 64gr bullet...

ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/14/2009 at 18:51
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4064 varget h-380 even reloader 15 is good with any 50-55gr grain bullet in a 22-250.
i shoot 36gr of 4064 with a 55gr sierra prohunter out of mine.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/14/2009 at 19:47
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Originally posted by pyro6999 pyro6999 wrote:

4064 varget h-380 even reloader 15 is good with any 50-55gr grain bullet in a 22-250.
i shoot 36gr of 4064 with a 55gr sierra prohunter out of mine.


That's one of my loads too. It throws fine from my RCBS.
I think the bullets you mentioned, up to 64 grains, should be good with the 1/12". I have always had excellent results with Sierra's.
I have a couple of 22-250's and think it is a very accurate round. Especially for a screamer. One's a heavy barreled Remington and the other a sporter weight for snow shoeing.



Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/15/2009 at 02:35
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I did a brief inventory of suitable bullets and powders I have on hand and it looks like I have enough to start experimenting.

I have Sierra 53gr, 55gr and 60gr hollow points and 55gr Hornady V-Max.

As far as suitable powders go, I have H414, BL-C(2), IMR4895, H4895 and Varget.

Since I am not using the last three for anything else, I think I will start with them and go from there.  I suppose I'll start by running some experiments with how accurate thrown charge weights are.

I also sent an e-mail to Berger Bullets to see what they can recommend.

ILya


Edited by koshkin - September/18/2009 at 18:20
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/15/2009 at 11:43
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one note about the bergers.  Reason they can handle the slower twists is they are very long bullets but a big part of that bullet is tapered.  Only a small part of it touches the rifling.  Good thing is it allows you to shoot heavier bullets in a slower twist.  Downside is if you load them like they recommend they will not fit in your mag as they are to long and you know have a single shot.    
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/15/2009 at 12:38
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Originally posted by supertool73 supertool73 wrote:

one note about the bergers.  Reason they can handle the slower twists is they are very long bullets but a big part of that bullet is tapered.  Only a small part of it touches the rifling.  Good thing is it allows you to shoot heavier bullets in a slower twist.  Downside is if you load them like they recommend they will not fit in your mag as they are to long and you know have a single shot.    

I am not sure that is correct.  I need to check the the mag length, since 22-250 is built on a "short" action that is designed for the longer 308Win-family of cartridges.  There might be enough space.

ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/15/2009 at 13:26
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Originally posted by koshkin koshkin wrote:

I have a heavy barrel savage chamebred for 22-250.  I have largely been shooting factory ammo out of it, but this time around I decided to make some handloads for it.  These loads will be used for taget shooting at the range and I will probably end up using Sierra MatchKing bullets or something similar.  I've had good luck with SMKs in other rifles, so I am leaning that way.  On the other hand, Berger Bullets look appealing as well.

Savage's 22-250 has a 1-in-12" twist rate.  What is the heaviest bullet it is likely to stabilize?

Sierra has a 60gr Varminter HP.  Berger has 60gr, 62gr and 64gr Match bullets with impressively high BC values.

Also, what powder would you recommend for 22-250 with the heaviest bullet that is likely to work?

Thanks
ILya
 
 I shoot 69/70gr with a 1-9 twist but I can also shoot 55gr bergers/V maxs very well.  with a 1-12 I would go with nothing heavy than a 55gr. 36gr of Varget would be a rocking..
 
 
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/15/2009 at 16:03
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The last time around I used reloader 10X and it is giving me small groups. I have not put it across a chronograph yet to check the velocity but it shot close to the graph for what it stated. I do not have any of the numbers here to post.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/15/2009 at 16:44
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Originally posted by supertool73 supertool73 wrote:

one note about the bergers.  Reason they can handle the slower twists is they are very long bullets but a big part of that bullet is tapered.  Only a small part of it touches the rifling.  Good thing is it allows you to shoot heavier bullets in a slower twist.  Downside is if you load them like they recommend they will not fit in your mag as they are to long and you know have a single shot.    
 
 
I really have to question your assertion, Jason. that the proper twist rate for a given bullet  is somehow connected to the amount of bearing surface of the bullet to the bore?
 
I think it simply would be far more accurate to simply state that very high BC (Ballistic Coefficient)  bullets need a faster twist rate to shoot well than do low BC bullets.
 
Low Drag= Low Stability;
 High Drag=High Stability.
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/15/2009 at 17:01
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I do not off hand whether it is the bearing surface or bullet length that requires faster twist rate.  Ultimately, it makes sense to me that longer bullets need faster twist rate (that's how the leverage works out), but I have also heard from multiple sources that bearing length makes a difference.  Perhaps, I should allocate a few hours to this and hit the books.  I never bothered to really look at the math on this before, but I probably should.

ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/15/2009 at 18:54
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All right, I remembered about a very useful website called www.loaddata.com and renewed my membership.

Digging through the data there and through some more info on the web tells me that I likely have everything I need as far as powders and bullets go.  If I decide to expand my experiments further I should look at Hodgdon 380, Ramshot Big Game and Ramshot TAC.

I also looked at some notes I have on factory ammo in this 22-250 rifle and it shot exceptionally well with Hornady plastic tipped bullets.  Perhaps, I should experiment a bit more with those.

ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/16/2009 at 03:23
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I went ahead and set up the dies for 22-250 about three hours ago.  I used Redding Neck Sizing die and Redding Bullet Seater Die.

I decided to try Varget first.  It did not agree with my Hornady powder measure particularly well: I measured 20 thrown charges and min to max variation was 0.4 grain.  Perhaps I am picky, but I thought it was a bit much, so I switched to using an electronic powder dispenser.

I loaded 40 rounds with 55gr V-Max with three difference charges (well below the max) and neck sized another 50 cases which I will try to load tomorrow.  I think these 50 I will load with Sierra 55gr HPs and see how they compare to V-Max.  For now, I will stick with Varget since it seems to yield good accuracy for a lot of people.

I'll try different powders later on.

ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/16/2009 at 08:29
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try H335 and 40 or 50gr. Vmax bullets. I use 35gr of H335 for both bullets, and the rifle is a savage 12bvss-s  3/8" - 5/8" groups all day long.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/16/2009 at 09:25
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Greenhill's Formula has been used extensively for determining barrel twist. It does not use bearing length but overall length.

Twist = 150 X D2/L

Where:
D = bullet diameter in inches
L= bullet length in inches
150 = a constant

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