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.22 magnum? really?

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Urimaginaryfrnd View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Urimaginaryfrnd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/12/2009 at 21:01
One of my boys dropped a coyote with a 22mag and it surprised him that it went down that quick it's a deadly little bullet.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kickboxer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/13/2009 at 00:37
Originally posted by supertool73 supertool73 wrote:

Lots of the old timers used .22 LR and mag to kill deer.  My grandpa says he used to do it all the time to put meat on the table. 

A .223 would be prefect for your wants.  If I were to get a .223 bolt gun I would be all over this one.  It is heavy, but I bet it is a shooter. http://savagearms.com/12model_longrange_precisisionvarminter.htm

BigDaddy on this site has one and as far as I know really likes it and it shoots very well.

If you want a lighter one, a Remington 700P LTR would be a good choice as well.  http://www.remingtonle.com/rifles/700pltr.htm
My first "deer rifle" was a .22.  Single shot Stevens...  used to take it to school and leave it in the coat closet so I could hunt on the way home.  It was legal in Texas then...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Urimaginaryfrnd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/13/2009 at 01:47
I used to carry a 22 mag revolver to finish deer by shooting them in the head when I got up to them if they were still alive. And Ive responded to several murder scenes where the weapon was a 22 or 25acp and the 22 mag is much stronger than those are.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Duce Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/13/2009 at 05:50
I have a Howa Axiom in the 308 excellent rifle for the money stock works to absorb the recoil, I would not hesitate to hunt deer with it. I do feel you at least owe the animal a clean kill not wounding with several shots in an underpowered rifle at 300+ yards
just my personal thoughts on it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ed Connelly Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/13/2009 at 07:27
I had a friend of mine in South Africa who once jacklighted a Leopard (!) in Botswana with a 22 LR!  Shot him right above the eye. I saw the pelt with the hole in it.  He was quite an outlaw.  [ Probably a distant relative of Bigdaddy....]   Light It Up
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sifusylvain Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/13/2009 at 10:35
Ya know what I have found supprising is the cost of ammo from 22 to 223, 243, 270, 30-06, and 308, the .308 cal. comes in as cheapest! overall after the 22 cal.
I am really starting to lean strongly on the .308 cal. for all around shooting (except plinking), with the only choice remaining being the configuration of the rifle. For that I am leanning toward the longer heavy barrels of 26 to 30 incehs just for my penchant of target and precision shooting at longer ranges....
Of course cost rises quickly in this catagory... but if I am going to spend the money, I want as few if any regrets when I'm out there doin' it.
For instance, the Savage 12 Palma Target rifle Factory#18532 30" S.S. barrel is a beauty dream rifle. Do any of you have experience or knowledge of the comparisons with say a Savage 12 VLP with 26" S.S. barrel Factory#18470 at half the price???
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Urimaginaryfrnd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/13/2009 at 16:39
Originally posted by Duce Duce wrote:

I have a Howa Axiom in the 308 excellent rifle for the money stock works to absorb the recoil, I would not hesitate to hunt deer with it. I do feel you at least owe the animal a clean kill not wounding with several shots in an underpowered rifle at 300+ yards
just my personal thoughts on it.
Duce Smile
When we are saying a 22 mag will kill a deer we are talking about shooting it in the brain and having it drop like a rock  at 30 yds not polking  holes in it at 300 yds and waiting for it to die of lead poisoning. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote supertool73 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/14/2009 at 10:05
For shooting 500 yards you certainly do not need a 30 in barrel especially in a .308.  Lots of guys shoot to 1000 with 20 -22 inch barrels.  Barrel length is over rated in my opinion for short action regular calibers.  A shorter stiffer barrel all else being equal will be more accurate than a longer barrel, in theory.  Now for an ultra mag, a 30 inch barrel might be sweet.

On the lion topic, my dad and his cousin used to hunt lions with dogs all the time in their younger days.  All they carried was .22 LR pistols, they would tree them and they shoot them in the head. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sifusylvain Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/14/2009 at 13:29
really? What I have been gleening from bits and pieces of the web is that the longer barrel actually increases velocity and stabelizes the tragectory for better long range accuracy... Is there a definitive source for information on precision long range shooting?????
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SD Dog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/14/2009 at 13:43
A definitive source?  Both camps (long barrel & short barrel) have them and both believe they are right 100% of the time.  I believe the palma setup has the long barrel to give a longer site plain as they do not use scopes, but not 100% certain on this.  Increasing barrel length does increase velocity to a point, but stabilizing bullets is done with twist rates.

.22 are interesting things.  Have seen coyotes and feral dogs drop like rocks yet seen coons and possums take several rounds and still manage to wander away.


Edited by SD Dog - September/14/2009 at 13:45
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote supertool73 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/14/2009 at 13:47
Here is a topic where we discussed it resently.  Take into account Big Squeeze is an extremest on the short barrels and acts like a liberal to anyone who might think differently about it.  He has good points but a short barrel is obviously not the end all.  Sako was poking him with a stick more than anything, but he prefers the longer barrels.  The articles at the first are pretty good.  http://www.opticstalk.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=18130

But if you think about it, a longer barrel is going to whip more.  So a shorter barrel of the same diameter would be stiffer therefore whip less.  But is any of these differences really appreciable?  Who knows, way to many other variables to deal with.  I know my 25 inch barrel .308 will shot under half in 10 shot groups at 100 yards.  Would a 20 inch do better than that?  I doubt I could ever shoot it any better to tell anyways.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sifusylvain Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/14/2009 at 14:15
if anyone remembers Rowan and Martin's "Laugh-in" you'll appreciate my remark of ... "Veeeeeeery interesting...."
 
My impression was that a lower twist rate for stable flight (given a particular grain bullet) in a longer and heavier (bull) barrel yielded more strength, less vibration and lift or whip and generally longer tradjectories for precision shooting.
 
but it looks like this may become a pseudo-religious argument point. So I will definitely check out the forum discussion you point to and do more research. it is starting to sound like the back and forth of 223 versus 308...
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote supertool73 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/14/2009 at 14:23
A bullet with a longer surface area touching the barrel will need a faster twist rate to stabilize.  Which typically means a heaver bullet of a given caliber will need a faster twist to stabilize properly.

Look at a 22-250 vs. a .223.  Most 22-250s have a 1-14 or a 1-12 twist rate, because people typically shoot 50 grain bullets as the max.  Many shoot 45 and 40 as that gun is all about speed.  At .223 on the other hand sometimes has 1-12 buy goes as fast a 1-7 on some AR-15s as they are designed to shoot heavier bullets up to 80 to 90 grains.  That is why I recommended the Rem 700 P or that Savage because with a 1-9 twist you have a great range of bullets you can shoot from about 50 grains up to 70ish, all the while keeping good accuracy. 

Same with a .308 vs. a 300 WM.  .308 usually has a 1-12 as most times 150 through 168 are shot in them.  A 300 WM has a 1-10 and most people shoot 190 or heavier, a few like the 180s for the speed. 

The longer heavier statement can be true is you have a short pencil barrel vs a longer thick barrel.  But take two barrel of the same diameter and the shorter will be stiffer. 

In the .223 vs .308.  The .308 will clean the clock of the .223 every way possible with energy and ballistics.  But the .223 would still be just fine for your wants and intentions, plus it is more pleasant to shoot recoil wise, and cheaper as well.  

Edited by supertool73 - September/14/2009 at 14:25
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tahqua Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/14/2009 at 15:37
+++1 what supertool said
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ed Connelly Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/14/2009 at 17:46
Originally posted by sifusylvain sifusylvain wrote:

really? What I have been gleening from bits and pieces of the web is that the longer barrel actually increases velocity and stabelizes the tragectory for better long range accuracy... Is there a definitive source for information on precision long range shooting?????
 
Some calibers and cartridges seem to not be affected by barrel length.  I believe ( by reading stuff over the years...) that the 6.5X55 is one of those cartridges that is not affected by sawing the barrel off............anybody?? 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Urimaginaryfrnd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/14/2009 at 18:10

The real bottom line of the whole long barrel short barrel thing is that some of each shoot well  and most dont.  A few manufactureres have an accuracy guarantee.  Sometimes you get lucky and buy a rifle that is awesome.  Most of the time you can plan on having a gunsmith do some work on it  - possibly trueing the action, pilar glass bedding the action and floating the barrel and working on the trigger. Sometimes you have to have a custom barrel installed on top of other work.   A lot of the selection of long vs short barrel comes down to how you intend to use the rifle.  A guy who always shoots from a bench rest using sand bags wants a long barrel and a heavy rifle.  A guy who is a police tactical officer may need a short barrel to get it turned aroung in a close space.  A guy who is a hunter who stalks game may want a lighter rifle with a light weight barrel.   There really is no right and wrong to selecting long over short or short over long it is based on need.   Form follows function.  If you have a short barrel you select a fast burning powder for better velocity.  The amount you give up in velocity by cutting 4 inches off the barrel will not make that much difference in the long run at hunting ranges but at 1000 yds it can matter but it can be corrected for too.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote magshooter1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/15/2009 at 07:56
Own a  CZ 550 FS in 6.5x55.  20.5 in. barrel.  My handloads average about 2850 with a  Hornady 129g SST.  Accuracy is very good for hunting rifle 5/8 in. to 3/4 in. 3-shot groups at 100 yds.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sifusylvain Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/15/2009 at 08:43
Great input all !!!!
 
Thanks so much!
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