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20X fixed power scope

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/01/2009 at 12:20
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I am seriously scope shopping. what I want ( and don't think I am going to find) is a variable powered scope that has turret knobs that are as good as what you find on a super sniper. I have resigned myself to the belief that in order to get what want I will have to spend more money that I have.  As a result I have decided to look had high magnification fixed powered scopes (read 16x and 20x super snipers).  I understand that If I put a 20x fixed powered scope on my gun it will become a glorified target rifle. Other than not being able to hunt anything at ranges closer than 500 yards what are the draw backs of using a high magnification fixed power scope 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/01/2009 at 13:20
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not good performance in low light.
bad mirage on hot days


There are MANY drawbacks to high magnification.  Keep in mind, 1000 yard shots with 10X scopes are not a real problem, so long as you know what you are doing and know your scope and your bullet drop.

I've heard very good things about the Falcon scopes but don't own one.

Unless you plan to do all your shooting out past 600+ yards, I would NOT recommend a 20X scope, and in most cases, not even a 16X scope.

What do you "need", what will be the purposes of the setup (how much hunting, what ranges, how much target, what ranges?)
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/01/2009 at 13:45
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I will be doing more target shooting than hunting. The target shooting will be from ranges as close as 100 yards to as far away as 1000 yards. Hopefully bulk of the target shooting will be under field conditions. Some will also be from the bench though kept to a minimum. The hunting will will be confined to long range coyote hunting. For the purpose of coyote hunting I will define long range as 300+.

From your comment it sounds like I am putting to much emphasis on the scope magnification. Maybe I should concentrate on the best scope I can buy with the funds i have even if this means living with a fixed power until I have the funds to get a variable of equivalent quality.

With reference to the Falcon scopes, I have heard that while their target knobs are good they are not as good as a super sniper
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/01/2009 at 13:53
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Looking at previous threads we/you have been on this same topic before I don't think you are going to do better than the 10x super sniper and you keep referring back to the ss just buy one.if you don't like it sell it for practically what you pay for it?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/01/2009 at 16:56
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So....I'm interested also in the pros and cons between the SS 10x and 20x. The scope will be mounted on an AR-30 .338 lapua. Thanks for the inputs, Bill
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/01/2009 at 19:07
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I'd get a 10X, it is fine on paper out to 1000 yards (not great on small moving game at that range.

With 20X, there are issues with mirage and with light transmission (20X with an objective of 40 gives an exit pupil of 2; ideally, you want it between 4 and 8 or thereabouts.)

I would recommend 10X for all-around use; 16X maybe if it will be a dedicated long-range, "lots-o-light" scope.  Personally, I'd buy the 10X.

If you are relatively new to long range, I'll give you the inside scoop: 1,000 yards is a long way away, practice at shorter ranges till you are very good at 500 yards or so.

And at about $5/shot, don't miss with that .338, it gets expensive fast to put rounds off paper.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/01/2009 at 21:47
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Dear Rancid Coolaid,
Thanks for the advice. I had been practicing at 300 yards and 500 yards with the old scope.  I'll order the 10x in the morning. Thanks very much. bill
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/01/2009 at 22:13
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Certainly a good idea to have a lower power scope, but if you are target shooting there is nothing wrong with 20x, to my eyes.  My 6-20x56 never goes off 20x when I am sighting in/target shooting.  Often wish I had a March 20-60x, but can't justify the $$$$ (in restaurant terms, that means VERY EXPENSIVE).  A 10x is more than sufficient for 1000yds.  
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/02/2009 at 07:29
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Be advised, there are many shooters who will disagree with my advise to you, some would recommend the 16X, some the 20X.

My recommendation is one data point.  Personally, I'd buy the 10X for all-around shootability.

And at 300 and 500 - and even 1,000 - I know 10X to be adequate.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/02/2009 at 07:42
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I wasn't disagreeing.  I said it is certainly a good idea to have a lower power scope and 10x is more than sufficient for 1000yds.  If I already had a 20x fixed, I would certainly get a 10x and both with QD rings and would carry both whenever I went to the range, etc.  But define your requirements and then get the scope to match them... not the other way around.  The 100% solution is almost never possible, unless your goals are low, the 90% solution is usually outstanding, the 85% solution is usually better than what was TRULY required.  
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/02/2009 at 08:35
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Originally posted by Kickboxer Kickboxer wrote:

I wasn't disagreeing.  I said it is certainly a good idea to have a lower power scope and 10x is more than sufficient for 1000yds.  If I already had a 20x fixed, I would certainly get a 10x and both with QD rings and would carry both whenever I went to the range, etc.  But define your requirements and then get the scope to match them... not the other way around.  The 100% solution is almost never possible, unless your goals are low, the 90% solution is usually outstanding, the 85% solution is usually better than what was TRULY required.  


Yes you were, and I applaud that!

I was "calling you out" Kickboxer, but as an alternative that had viability and a good point.
My intention was to let the guy know that my recommendation of a 10X would not be everyone's and I didn't want him to buy the 10X simply because I recommended it - and noted that others would recommend something else.

I put significant value on differing points of view.  My background says that 10X is good all-around and 20X is many times a severe problem (like shooting on 95+ degree days in Texas, or when needing to take that quick 100-yard shot), others' shooting experience might be very different - and lead to an entirely different conclusion.

When I ask a question, I want all views. I'll weed out those that don't apply or matter and consider the rest.  I encourage anyone and everyone to disagree with me always.  The great thing about this page is that varying view-points can be presented without anyone getting upset and it turning to name-calling or a contest to see who's weener is bigger.


I have vehemently disagreed with ILya over many things on the OT; however, when I need advice or perspective, I frequently ask him first - he sees things I do not (literally) and sometimes sees things in a different way, and I value that.


Rdsii64 and everyone else:  NEVER listen to anyone as the absolute authority on anything, varying points of view are a good thing, and decide for yourself what arguments and points have merit.

As Kickboxer said, there is no "perfect scope" for all things, determine what is most needed, find something that comes close to matching exactly that (but that still does a few other things well.)  It is my opinion that a fixed 20X is almost never perfect for anything, and 10X - though not perfect for some things - does so many things very well as to be a great choice in many circumstances.

But I have been wrong before.  Twice!


Edited by Rancid Coolaid - February/02/2009 at 08:37
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/02/2009 at 09:05
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Originally posted by Rancid Coolaid Rancid Coolaid wrote:

Originally posted by Kickboxer Kickboxer wrote:

I wasn't disagreeing.  I said it is certainly a good idea to have a lower power scope and 10x is more than sufficient for 1000yds.  If I already had a 20x fixed, I would certainly get a 10x and both with QD rings and would carry both whenever I went to the range, etc.  But define your requirements and then get the scope to match them... not the other way around.  The 100% solution is almost never possible, unless your goals are low, the 90% solution is usually outstanding, the 85% solution is usually better than what was TRULY required.  


Yes you were, and I applaud that!

I was "calling you out" Kickboxer, but as an alternative that had viability and a good point.
My intention was to let the guy know that my recommendation of a 10X would not be everyone's and I didn't want him to buy the 10X simply because I recommended it - and noted that others would recommend something else.

I put significant value on differing points of view.  My background says that 10X is good all-around and 20X is many times a severe problem (like shooting on 95+ degree days in Texas, or when needing to take that quick 100-yard shot), others' shooting experience might be very different - and lead to an entirely different conclusion.

When I ask a question, I want all views. I'll weed out those that don't apply or matter and consider the rest.  I encourage anyone and everyone to disagree with me always.  The great thing about this page is that varying view-points can be presented without anyone getting upset and it turning to name-calling or a contest to see who's weener is bigger.


I have vehemently disagreed with ILya over many things on the OT; however, when I need advice or perspective, I frequently ask him first - he sees things I do not (literally) and sometimes sees things in a different way, and I value that.


Rdsii64 and everyone else:  NEVER listen to anyone as the absolute authority on anything, varying points of view are a good thing, and decide for yourself what arguments and points have merit.

As Kickboxer said, there is no "perfect scope" for all things, determine what is most needed, find something that comes close to matching exactly that (but that still does a few other things well.)  It is my opinion that a fixed 20X is almost never perfect for anything, and 10X - though not perfect for some things - does so many things very well as to be a great choice in many circumstances.

But I have been wrong before.  Twice!
Well, I didn't disagree but now I disagree now that you think I disagreed, so will just have to disagree over the disagreement, with which I vociferously disagree.  
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/02/2009 at 13:41
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Thanks guys for all of the input but, Hey, 7 years US Navy I had to go with the Marine!
Have a great day, Bill
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/02/2009 at 13:51
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But do you agree that what RC took as disagreement was actually in agreement and we therefore don't disagree???
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/02/2009 at 14:08
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Yes,
You guys have too much fun on this post. 
FYI I ordered the SS 10 x 42 Mil Dot max, Badger Ordinance Max 50 rings and GG&C extreme duty bipod and adapter. Might as well do it as good as you can afford, right?
Keep smiling, Bill
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/02/2009 at 17:04
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You'll be happy.  Which is what counts.  ... the whole world smiles with yoooouuuuu.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/02/2009 at 17:10
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For range shooting, especially in fairly warm climates, I would generally recommend a 10x or 12x if you are looking for a fixed power scopes.  Higher powered fixed magnificaiton scopes have very limited usefullness, in my opinion.  With a variable scope, something along the lines of 6.5-20x or 6-24x would be a very useful magnificatioin range.

ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/03/2009 at 07:33
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You will enjoy it.  For the money, a better scope cannot be found.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/04/2009 at 15:15
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i've gotten into long range hunting the last 4 years or so and scope magnification is talked about quite often. my experience has been is it dependent on the size of the target. we shoot at groundhogs and crows over 1k. in my opinion, a 10x just won't cut it for that purpose. not saying it can't be done, just that for me, a little more magnification works a little better. on the other side if you're just hunting big game, deer, elk, a 10x works very well for most.
 
i'll agree with the fact that a fixed power scope is just a better more reliable unit. i have a 6-20 Luppy that's been "Tuckerized" and i just leave it on 20x and don't move the parralax. it works so much better if i don't move anything. i only shoot to 1200 on deer but as far as you can see um for groundhogs. i'm seriously considering getting a Super Sniper because of their ability to hold zero and repeat. i don't have any shooting under 500 with this gun.
 
for one scope to shoot everything from 100 to 1000, a 4/6 x 18/24 variable power would be the way to go.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/04/2009 at 22:31
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Originally posted by Dave Wilson Dave Wilson wrote:

i've gotten into long range hunting the last 4 years or so and scope magnification is talked about quite often. my experience has been is it dependent on the size of the target. we shoot at groundhogs and crows over 1k. in my opinion, a 10x just won't cut it for that purpose. not saying it can't be done, just that for me, a little more magnification works a little better. on the other side if you're just hunting big game, deer, elk, a 10x works very well for most.
 
i'll agree with the fact that a fixed power scope is just a better more reliable unit. i have a 6-20 Luppy that's been "Tuckerized" and i just leave it on 20x and don't move the parralax. it works so much better if i don't move anything. i only shoot to 1200 on deer but as far as you can see um for groundhogs. i'm seriously considering getting a Super Sniper because of their ability to hold zero and repeat. i don't have any shooting under 500 with this gun.
 
for one scope to shoot everything from 100 to 1000, a 4/6 x 18/24 variable power would be the way to go.
What gun IS that??
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/05/2009 at 11:19
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You "shoot" deer at 1200 yards or you "shoot at" deer at 1200 yards?
 
What rifle and caliber?
 
1200 yards is the better part of a  mile. Any error on your part or any movement on the deer's part or any minor variation in wind along the bullet path and your kill becomes a wound, and it takes awhile to walk 1200 yards.
 
I hope you are a damn good shot!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/05/2009 at 23:58
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Smoke and Mirrors. I shoot deer with a Bow.  Walk Closer.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/06/2009 at 08:30
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So, I really respect the input of this forum to this point and I would like to stir the embers a little. Keeping in mind that I already made a purchase of the SS 10x42, what about a scope with a larger objective lense like the ATN 8x24x75? Well, wait a minute, do you guys even like the ATN scopes?
Thanks, Bill
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/06/2009 at 09:14
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Mall ninjas swear by ATN, what more could one ask of a Chinese-made optic?

They are very "tacticool", no doubt.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/06/2009 at 10:01
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The one exception to the advice given above would be if benchrest shooting is your definition of "target shooting."  In that game, more is better when it comes to magnification because the goal is to shoot the tiniest possible groups.  Besides magnification, having a thin reticle and a scope that absolutely doesn't shift POI trumps everything else, including image quality, since you're only looking at the very center of the field at a tiny section of a paper target.  Some serious BR shooters even permanently glue the erector assy in place so it cannot move and use external adjustments on the mounts. 
 
I didn't read into the OP's post that BR shooting was the intended use, but I thought I'd throw that out for clarification anyway.


Edited by RifleDude - February/06/2009 at 10:34
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