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.204 Ruger vs 6 PPC & BR etc.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/27/2006 at 22:39
LRJ35A View Drop Down
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I have just bought a couple of 204 to practice with and in the very near future plan on building a custom higher end 204.  This is all in a quest to attempt to beat all of the nay-sayers who opine that a 204 can't keep up with all of the Wildcat 6mm cartridges ie 6mmBR, 6 PPC, and on and on in the benchrest game.

Anyway, my only ambition is to beat the hell out of some friends(and a few lcal comp's) @200 yards, against they're $$ 6mm's.

What scope do you experts think will help the most at that range with the flat shooting 204, which happens to be 4200FPS +/- and dead on @ 200yds..w/ a 32gr Hornady

Thanks in advance


Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/28/2006 at 08:21
Dale Clifford View Drop Down
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If the people you are trying to beat are practiced and trained you have a big goal ahead. First off how much time do you have in the bench rest game? Are talking about some guys who shoot at a local range or the people who shoot and follow the circuit? A good deal of their expertice in those small groups is preparation, reloading, wind doping etc. Also which class are you going to shoot in? A 40 gr is a better bullet choice for all around shooting but none of them are used for bench shooting and your work ups will be in vain. First off you will need a much tighter twist rate to use Berger (or some one elses who is building a real bench bullet for the 204) factory stuff will not cut it and your out of the game already. A flat shooting bullet at high velocity has very little to do with this sport! Actually it is a determint because the excess powder causes  to much barrel heat up. The 6 br is chosen because of it's almost ideal case capacity to bore ratio.  Case prep helps quite a bit with a normal varmit type 204, but if you go to a custom- it will become everything. Back to your question. any 6.5x20 with fine crosshair, 1/8 clicks will do, Few of the factory guns have the ability to take advantage of something like an 8x32 Leo or Nightforce. Actually the most important thing to get would be a Bridgeport mill.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/28/2006 at 19:20
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Optics GrassHopper
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Dale,

Thanks for the reply, my background is just paper punchin every now & then.  The guys with the 6's used to do some matches, but now are more out at the range shooting for fun and bragging while they are at it.  Well they got me going with all of their broo-ha-ha and I simply told them I would beat hell out of em, to get them going...you know the routine, maybe...

So, since I happen to really like the feel of this new round, thought I would have one built to some real high standards and use it for the bench as well as maybe later on in some varmint - plunking.

I think the choice in bullets are 32gr or 39gr from what I've seen.  So after talking w/a choice gunsmith I will soon figure out what they think is the right combo.

As far as scopes, I've owned several over the years, but haven't used them in a few years off the sport.  Some have told me a Leupy or Weaver in 36X would be the ticket, once I got loads figured out.  But to do any varmint mixed in, I thought that might not be the ticket...

Regards

?????????????????
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/29/2006 at 09:51
Dale Clifford View Drop Down
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Yes like most- I've been on both sides of the cage rattle. Sounds like you have a goal- and some reloading backround. Some further suggestions would to get a couple of books from Brownells on bench reloading (which is different) and precision rifle. Sinclair and Forester catalogs are a good thing to have for reference. 30x + optics are definitely the way to go but maybe later on. 6.5x20 are still hard to beat for all around use. Now that commericial brass is available you won't have to fireform your cases from 222 mag cases which has about 1/2 the battle. 40 gr, V-max are the best bullets I have found for my cz and Remington 204's and varget the best powder. I'm not sure which commercial models of the 204 you have chosen, but remember the fire formed brass for each one will be different and not interchangable-at least if you want to get the most out of your accuracy. Lastly the triggers in most are not suitable for really serious target, try Jewell or Rifle basic.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/29/2006 at 12:00
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OK Dale, we give up.  Tell us about the Bridgeport mill.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/29/2006 at 19:24
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Optics GrassHopper
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I bought(in .204) a new Ruger MK77 Ultralite, a new Rem 700BDL Ltd edition thumbhole-bull barrel, and Cooper Phoenix M21. 

Of the scopes in 6.5-20 which would you pick ?? Also in the 36X which one, also I'm unsure or the difference in the Leupy's of EFR vs LR.....Does a person need target knobs for bench ??


Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/31/2006 at 21:04
Dale Clifford View Drop Down
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The Bridgeport just referenced those of us who not being satisfied with something make it out of a block of steel. to get it just right. I just know alot of benchresters who make their own parts. The tolerences in commercial stuff is at some decimal point. move it 2-3 points to the left and a mill becomes a necessity and the degree of precision dedicated benchers approach the sport. Target knobs are a must as well as 1/8 inch clicks and cross hair. With the dough you have already thrown I'd go for a 8x32 bench Nightforce on the rem or Cooper and Brady's A1 scope for the ruger because it's not even close to being a class with the other two. As far as a 6.5X20 Conquest target, Leo's or the Nikon would be top choices. I used to shoot a 6br on a poor man's Rem 788 with a Canjar in heavy varmit, but that was a good bit ago. good luck.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/13/2006 at 19:28
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Good luck with your endeavors. The 204 can be manipulated into punching some real small groups.

IMHO you should start with the 35gr Berger or at least not overlook it.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/01/2008 at 19:14
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LRJ35A,
The .204 is a very accurate, very good little varmint round.
 
BUT -- it IS NOT competitive with the 6PPC or 6BR in the benchrest game if the 6's are launched from true benchrest rifles and a decent benchrest shooter is behind the trigger.  You might luck out and shoot a smaller individual group or two every now and then, but the PPC and BR will kill you on aggregate group size, assuming you plan to play by BR rules. 
 
If you plan to shoot short range benchrest, forget about variable scopes.  Leupold, Sightron, and Weaver T series are the main fixed power benchrest scopes used at 200 yds.  Some BR shooters actually disassemble the scope and glue the erector assy in place so it becomes non-adjustable, then use adjustable mounts instead because they are concerned with even the slightest POI shift caused by the scope.  That's how fanatical serious benchresters can be about ensuring absolute rock solid precision and repeatability.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/02/2008 at 11:38
RONK View Drop Down
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 Ted's got it pretty well nailed, as usual. If you want to re-invent the wheel for your own satisfaction, knock yourself out. It's your time and money, but don't be too disappointed if you get blown out of the water fairly consistently. There are reasons for the domination of the 6s.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/02/2008 at 13:04
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And believe me, it's not as if many, many other cartridges haven't been tried pretty extensively.  In the end, most BR shooters finally give up and go with the 6PPC, because it is the accuracy king... so far.  There may eventually be something else that comes along to dethrone it, but it is consistent, which means good aggs.  In benchrest, individual group sizes aren't as important as aggs.  The 6PPC dominates becase of a combination of ideal case capacity for the powders that work well with it, great 6mm match grade bullets available, the ideal compromise between wind resistance and recoil, the quality of brass available for it, the short/fat case combination that gives ever so slightly better burn consistency and therefore low velocity StdDev, etc.  So, even if you had a .204 in a benchrest quality rifle, made to benchrest specifications, it's still highly unlikely it could compete with the 6PPC.  Even the 6BR isn't quite up to par with the 6PPC in short range benchrest, but it is slightly superior to the PPC in long range benchrest.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/03/2008 at 09:43
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I have to agree while not necessarily optimized for target shooting, the .204 is an excellent varmint round in my view.
 
Heavy custom barrels such as this one by Lilja offer better cooling than thin barrels supplied by gun manufacturers in my experience.
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/02/2008 at 13:22
trigger29 View Drop Down
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X = 180 Y = 90 (X+Pyro)+(Y-Pyro) = ?

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Originally posted by Dale Clifford Dale Clifford wrote:

The Bridgeport just referenced those of us who not being satisfied with something make it out of a block of steel. to get it just right. I just know alot of benchresters who make their own parts. The tolerences in commercial stuff is at some decimal point. move it 2-3 points to the left and a mill becomes a necessity and the degree of precision dedicated benchers approach the sport.
 
WOOHOO, I have one of these fancy new fangled CNC Bridgeports. Now what am I going to make?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/02/2008 at 19:35
Steelbenz View Drop Down
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Trigger the scary part is he's not joking' one of the machinist here at the plant is that one minded about it.  You know the commercial 2 bullets through the same hole is luck 5 is leupold.  He thinks 50.
 
 
Edited in:
 
Critter, thats a good lookin' rig. 


Edited by Steelbenz - May/02/2008 at 19:36
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/05/2008 at 01:12
trigger29 View Drop Down
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X = 180 Y = 90 (X+Pyro)+(Y-Pyro) = ?

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I would like to get some time on the mill for personal projects, but we seem to be rebuilding the whole damn plant these last few weeks. My boss is awesome, and if everything is running, and my daily rounds are done, I do whatever I wish on the mill, lathe, or whatever. I made a hanging steel plate long range target one night at work....... And got paid to make it....... And got the steel from the plant for free. While I may complain about my job, it has its perks.
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