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2008 SHOT show

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/09/2007 at 21:59
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It looks like I'll be able to make it to the SHOT show in February.  Anyone from opticstalk going?

ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/09/2007 at 22:25
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Possible and hopefully.

 

Regards Technika

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/10/2007 at 02:23
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ILya,

Can you do me three favors while you're there?

1. Stop by Zeiss's booth to ask them if Hensoldt scopes will be ever available again in US for civilians.

2. Stop by Schmidt & Bender booth and ask them to update their PDF datasheets with all the proper dimensions for reticles they sell. Tell them it better be on the website or else it's not very helpful :)

3. Stop by CZ booth and check out the CZ-75 Tactical Sport, tell me if the grip is a bit too large or not.

And let us know if there is anything interesting you see there.



Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/10/2007 at 03:28
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I do not care about Hensoldt and S&B too much, so someone else will have to check that for you. 

As for CZ75 Tactical Sport, the grip is just right for my hands which are probably on the small side of average.  It is one of the most comfortable guns I've ever touched and easily one of my favourites.

ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/10/2007 at 08:44
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Yes I am going and can't wait, reservations are made
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/11/2007 at 02:07
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ILya,

Thanks for the info. I like their SP-01, but never seen TS, so figured if at least I could hear from someone that handled one it would be helpful.


Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/11/2007 at 02:17
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The grip shape of the TS is more or less the same as on other full size 9mm/40S&W CZ frames.  The scales are a touch different and then there is the stipling on the front strap (I do not remember what was on the back strap), but the shape is the same.  With CZ pistols if you are comfortable with one version of 75, you will be comfortable with all 75s and 85s. 

CZ 97, although it looks similar in the pictures, is actually a lot beefier.  With my hands being fairly small, I can not comfortably reach the trigger in DA mode without shifting my grip a touch.

ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/11/2007 at 02:40
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[QUOTE=koshkin]I do not care about Hensoldt and S&B too much, so someone else will have to check that for you.         What don't you like about S&B, other than the price?

Edited by yellowdog
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/11/2007 at 02:50
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Originally posted by yellowdog yellowdog wrote:

[QUOTE=koshkin]I do not care about Hensoldt and S&B too much, so someone else will have to check that for you.         What don't you like about S&B, other than the price?


It is mostly the price.  Other than that, I am heavily biased against their country of origin.

ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/11/2007 at 04:39
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ILya,

I guess you're a fan of CZ. Honestly, I never liked the CZ 75 or CZ 75B models. I began to take CZ 75 seriously only when they introduced CZ 75 Single-Action and CZ 75 SP-01. SP-01 is definitely well-made, trigger is better and grip is better designed as well. In DA mode it still sucks like any other DA pistol, but in Single-Action it's pretty good. It's a serious competitor to plastic DA guns like XD and Glock. I'm personally a big fan of metal.

In 45 ACP though I think that 1911 is the single best pistol designed for the caliber.
45 ACP is meant to be shot in single-action. Personal opinion of course.

yellowdog - yeah, I guess Ilya doesn't like the fact that Herr Schmidt and Herr Bender are from Germany. Personally I couldn't care less about country of origin (unless it happens to be Communist country). Quality of the product and value to me personally matter the most. If Leupold, US Optics, Burris or Bushnell could make a product sufficiently competitive to S&B - I would buy it. Honestly, if you practically never shoot beyond 400-500 meters, it's entirely possible that you will find a good scope made outside of Germany for that purpose. But if you need a real Tactical Scope and like to be able to take shots at any distance up to 1000 meters (or more), you pretty much have only two choices - S&B or Zeiss/Hensoldt. This is by the way very different from shooting in competition. In most competitions you shoot at preset, known distances. For that you could find a scope that works well. But when you take into account the unknowns of shooting at ANY distance up to the maximum effective range of your choice of caliber, then pretty much no other scopes stand to S&B or Hensoldt.




Edited by spreader
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/11/2007 at 10:52
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Opinions differ.  I have not been able to find a 1911 I like, so I do not currently own any.  I also prefer DA/SA guns with decocker a la Sig or CZ BD and DAO guns a la Glock (I learned to shoot with a Glock).

As for S&B and Hensoldt being the only choice for long range shooting.  I disagree with that.  In that price range I'll take US Optics and quite a few less expensive scopes can also do fine.  However, I am not the best long range shooter in the world, so I'll let someone else argue with you on that.

ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/11/2007 at 12:40
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Can a civilian go to the SHOT show? If so, where is this one and how much does it cost?

Thanks.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/11/2007 at 12:46
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Originally posted by dtmoss14 dtmoss14 wrote:

Can a civilian go to the SHOT show? If so, where is this one and how much does it cost?

Thanks.


I think you have to be in some way connected to the firearm/hunting/etc. business to go.  This is from their website:

NOTE: Only individuals doing business in the shooting, hunting or outdoor trade or affiliated with the trade may
attend the SHOT Show.  Attendees may be required to provide additional verification of their trade-related business
or affiliation (e.g., FFL or other supporting documentation) prior to or during the show.  Individuals should carefully
review the show's exhibitor and attendee rules prior to registering.  Registration and subsequent admission constitutes
full and unconditional agreement to and acceptance of all show rules.

ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/12/2007 at 17:56
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ILya,

Valid point about the grip size on 1911. It definitely is one of the least-friendly designs for people with small hands. I have small hands and it works well for me only with modified grips. I used grips from woodgrips.com, the UltraThin Cocobolo version. They reduce the thickness of the grip by about quarter of an inch and make it fairly comfortable in my hands. There is still one thing that I can't do without changing my grip on the gun though - I can't engage the magazine release with my thumb without twisting the handgun in the hand. Obviously if you use the second hand to do that it's not a problem, but it's not comfortable. So, generally speaking it's easier for someone with large hands to operate it, that's for sure. At the same time, when shooting 45 ACP I think it's by far the best design out there. I'd say only HK Expert shoots better in this caliber, but I think it's even bulkier than 1911.


Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/12/2007 at 18:14
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Originally posted by spreader spreader wrote:

ILya,

Valid point about the grip size on 1911. It definitely is one of the least-friendly designs for people with small hands. I have small hands and it works well for me only with modified grips. I used grips from woodgrips.com, the UltraThin Cocobolo version. They reduce the thickness of the grip by about quarter of an inch and make it fairly comfortable in my hands. There is still one thing that I can't do without changing my grip on the gun though - I can't engage the magazine release with my thumb without twisting the handgun in the hand. Obviously if you use the second hand to do that it's not a problem, but it's not comfortable. So, generally speaking it's easier for someone with large hands to operate it, that's for sure. At the same time, when shooting 45 ACP I think it's by far the best design out there. I'd say only HK Expert shoots better in this caliber, but I think it's even bulkier than 1911.




Actually, the size of the grip on the 1911 does not bother me since I have fairly long fingers.  It is simply not very comfortable for me (except for Bul M5) and just about all 1911s I have tried point down for me.  Then, I just never got the allure of SA only.  Then there are the practical considerations: almost everyone I know who has a 1911 has to fiddle with it to get it work properly.  My interests run with rifles.  I own handguns strictly because of practical considerations.  I have very little interest in fiddling with them.  From what I understand, if you buy a Les Baer or a similarly expensive 1911, you do not get those problems after break-in.  However, I can buy a Glock/CZ/Sig for one-third to one-half the cost and get a gun that I do not need to tinker with and that fits better in my hands.

ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/12/2007 at 18:26
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ILya,

Ah, okay. Well, I can tell you this much, I only modified two things on my Springfield 1911A1. I had the front-strap checkered at 20LPI. Technically I prefer 25LPI, but Springfield wasn't offering it at the time and other gunsmiths I contacted told me it will take 4 months, so I didn't bother waiting. And I installed the above-mentioned UltraThin grips. Other than that I don't feel the need to modify anything.

A lot of people modify their 1911's probably because they're fairly easy to modify to suit you just the way you like it. With Sig P-series or Glock or XD it's actually not that simple. CZ 75 lends itself to more customization since it's an all-metal handgun, but availability of 3rd-party parts means it's pretty rare for someone to actually modify their CZ 75. Next 1911 I buy will have light rail and I will perform two modifications on it - install Bo-Mar Combat adjustable rear sight and UltraThin grips. Other than that I won't need anything else done to it.

I'm more into rifles than handguns as well, but I prefer handguns that are just right anyway and with SA handguns I can shoot faster while being more accurate.

Fiddling with rifles or handguns is not my thing though, I would rather spend more time shooting them.
However, finding an indoor range to shoot a handgun is always easier than finding a nearest 1000-yard range to shoot the rifle...




Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/13/2007 at 10:38
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Originally posted by spreader spreader wrote:


yellowdog - yeah, I guess Ilya doesn't like the fact that Herr Schmidt and Herr Bender are from Germany. Personally I couldn't care less about country of origin (unless it happens to be Communist country). Quality of the product and value to me personally matter the most. If Leupold, US Optics, Burris or Bushnell could make a product sufficiently competitive to S&B - I would buy it. Honestly, if you practically never shoot beyond 400-500 meters, it's entirely possible that you will find a good scope made outside of Germany for that purpose. But if you need a real Tactical Scope and like to be able to take shots at any distance up to 1000 meters (or more), you pretty much have only two choices - S&B or Zeiss/Hensoldt. This is by the way very different from shooting in competition. In most competitions you shoot at preset, known distances. For that you could find a scope that works well. But when you take into account the unknowns of shooting at ANY distance up to the maximum effective range of your choice of caliber, then pretty much no other scopes stand to S&B or Hensoldt.


Sorry Charlie I'll stick with IOR for that application Thankyou very much.

There's no way to justify paying two or three times for the slight optical difference.

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