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20 in barrel for 1000 yards??

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/26/2015 at 00:50
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Hey there everyone...I haven't been on here In a few years but imnlookng to start another project and I'm a new coming to the subject. Im looking to build a long range rifle. 1000 yard gun. I'm either going to go with a Remington or savage. Deff going to be a .308. My question is this will a 20 inch barrel get me to my goal or should I be looking for a 24 or 26 in barrel. I'm looking to stay under 1500 dollars with gun and optics. Hope to here back soon

Thanks guys
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/26/2015 at 06:41
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Howdy stranger! Howdy
 
Sounds like a nice fun project.  1000yds huh.  Dead set on .308?  .338 seems to be the current goto caliber for LR with the ability to go hunting...  308 will definitely do it but the balistic arc is pretty bad out there and not very forgiving...
 
AS far as the barrel....  I'm thinking 20" would be starving the load a bit for really reaching out there.
 
Good luck with your project.  I'm sure some of the others will chime in shortly!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/26/2015 at 07:41
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Just FYI... interesting reading...


http://www.tacticaloperations.com/SWATbarrel/

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/26/2015 at 07:53
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Why are you dead set on a .308, my friend? 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/26/2015 at 08:02
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Quite interesting read!!!!   Thanks for the link, Dan!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/26/2015 at 08:22
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I have a 19" in .308 and habe shot it to 1200 yards and made consistant hits on steel at that distance. Obviously not the best caliber or barrel length for that distance, but it works.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/26/2015 at 08:59
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First, welcome back.

Next, why set on 308?  If I were looking to build something for long range target, it'd be a 6mm or 6.5mm gun, bullet selection is great, recoil is considerably less than 308, and they buck the wind better than almost anything you'd launch from a 20" 308.

If the objective is getting a bullet accurately to 1000 yards, 20" is fine, actually a little shorter can work too, especially if you hand load.  Be aware that, at 1000 yards with a 20" tube, the bullet gets there with not much ass.

On the longer tube, it will give you more velocity and more options; but it will be longer.

Why the 20"? Ease of moving around, smaller rifle case, coolness?  Just curious.

I have a 20" 308 Remmy, it stays in the safe now more than it once did, the 243 goes the range in its place, just easier to shoot well.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/26/2015 at 09:16
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My reasoning for the .308 is ammo avalibility. I don't have the room to reload. How's the ammo supply on 6.5 and how's the cost?

Thanks guys.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/26/2015 at 09:18
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The reason for the 20 inch. Is it seems like a lot of rifles now are coming with it from savage and Remington. I'm not against any length just wanted to make sure if I did get a 20 inch it would do it
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/26/2015 at 09:30
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Hornady makes match quality ammo for the 6.5 creedmore that is very affordable.  If you are not going to hand load, that caliber would be a good one to consider.  Very similar trajectory to the 300 WM, but considerably less recoil.  If it is solely for long range targets, it makes more sense to not have to deal with the recoil.

When I had my custom .308 built.  I seriously considered a 6.5 caliber.  But I stuck with the .308 because of all the money I had spent on .308 specific reloading equipment.  I still kinda wish I would have done different.  But now it is what it is. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/26/2015 at 09:36
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6.5 creedmore has readily available ammo.  Nothing will be as available as 308 and 30-06, but a little planning goes a long way.  Price-wise, 6.5CM is not bad, usually a few dollars/box less than comparable 308.


Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/26/2015 at 10:05
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Originally posted by supertool73 supertool73 wrote:

I have a 19" in .308 and habe shot it to 1200 yards and made consistant hits on steel at that distance. Obviously not the best caliber or barrel length for that distance, but it works.
 
Okay but your a better  shot with your weak eye then most are with their domainant eye!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/26/2015 at 10:07
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Everybody pretty much covered it. You may be surprised to find that there are folk out there shootin 1K with 14" pistols. Kinda frustrated me when I saw it. Here I am building these top end rifles to shoot 1K+ and these guys are doing it with pistols..............? Oh well! That's great for them, just proves that 1K ain't as challenging as most think. But it has proven helpful to know cause now getting these rifles tuned in is actually easier. But as with most things there are always trade offs. You build a rifle with a 28" heavy/varmint barrel to achieve higher velocity, (slightly) lower recoil and they tend to heat up alittle slower (dependin on caliber). And harmonics come into play based on barrel length and diameter. About half the guys I compete with shootin 1K, shoot 308's and win about half the matches. They do however  generally have 26'+ barrels. Because of that I have a growin respect for 308. I still shoot 300wm and 7mm wsm myself but I do have a pet project 308 in the works so at some point I will be testin 308 performance.

To your questions. With a 1500 budget try to keep the rifle 500.00 or less and put the rest toward the scope. That means you will probably be lookin used on both but, you can score some good pieces just the same. You can get into a new Savage under 500.00 but, I am leery of the new Remington's. You see a good review now and then but mostly not so. A older Remington would have to be considered and then hope it hasn't been abused. Something else you have to consider is both will likely come with base stocks and even if you bed and free float you still have a base stock. I tried to get by in a pinch with a Base Remington stock for a comp. and got away with it on the first match but, the next match I was completely out because the stock just wasn't up to par. I suspect that you would have potential of the same with the Savage. So that being said, unless you luck up and find a used Remington with a up-graded stock you will probably need to consider replacing the stock later on after your funds recover.

In short, Yes, you can shoot 1K with a 20" 308. But it is not the ideal "rifle" package. And as I'm sure you have seen repeatedly. A good rifle is key but a better scope is absolute.

Good luck! Let us know how things are commin along.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/26/2015 at 10:26
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Thanks a bunch. I will keep u guys informed where I end up. I'll prob have 100 questions along the way I know where to go for anwser s now. Thanks guys
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/26/2015 at 12:02
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There's some sound wisdom from The Hive. I don't shoot to 1000 yards, but love the 20" barrel on my .308. 
There's a few of calibers that can get you out to 1000 yards better, well more efficiently, than the .308 Win.  
.308 Win does a lot of things pretty well, but is a master of none.....save marketing hype. Wink
I'm not a .308 hater either. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/26/2015 at 13:24
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If you choose a remington, take a good look at the 5r milspec, it is a nice rifle and all I have seen are extremely accurate.  It comes with decent stock as well.

Make sure whatever you get it has a good stock.  Don't skimp on that.  If you get a crappy stock that hits the barrel when using your bipod and such it will play all kinds of havoc with your consistency.   I have take precision rifle classes with guys using lower end guns that come with crap stocks and they just can't do it well enough.  Several of them walked away on day two because of how inconsistent their rifles were.  Next class, they would be back with a 5r or something similar and have a great time.

If it were me, I would get a 20" 5r in .308 $900ish, a SWFA SS 10x $300 and talley rings mounts $45. 

Or the Savage 10 FCP HS precision or 10FCP Mcmillan around $1000ish and same scope and ring mounts.  
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/10/2016 at 11:42
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Timely thread.  RC's thread about the Tikka CTR, got me thinking about a lightweight hunting rifle in 260 Rem, which naturally got me to thinking about a dedicated long range paper puncher (don't ask me how my mind works).

I have a Savage 10P 5R in 308 Win in a B&C M40 Medalist stock that might be a good donor rifle to get rebarreled to 260 Rem.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/10/2016 at 13:47
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The 20 inch will work just fine with the .308 at 1000. Velocity loss will be about 4% over a 24 inch and that is no big deal. Supersonic is the real big factor.

I like 6mm's and 6.5mm's and look at the interaction of G7 form factors (independent of weight) and G7 ballistic coefficients (dependent on weight) to boost velocities and get out to long ranges well (wind & elevation). Get a copy of the Berger manual and read all about it (page 168)

At the moment we are shooting targets with 95 grain 6mm Berger VLD's and 130 grain 6.5 Berger VLD's in .243W and 6.5X47L. 140 VLD's in the 6.5-06.

The little .22-.250 loaded with the 75 grain VLD is a good performer also.

The massive .338 caliber shot out of a .338 Lapua or .338 Edge is formidable and probably is close to ultimate provided the shooter can handle the recoil and cost. The .338 300 grain Berger has the lowest (good) form factor of all their bullets.



Edited by Stevey Ducks - February/10/2016 at 13:58
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/10/2016 at 15:11
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.308 would not be my first choice for what you want to do.  The round is generally transitioning to subsonic or subsonic beyond 900 yards.  6.5 Creedmore ammo is readily available in my area and more pleasant to shoot than a .30 caliber.  Having said that I have a 20" Savage Precision Carbine that shoots half MOA and kills steel with ease out to 800 yards so 1,000 to 1,200 yards certainly is not out of the question with .308 but it requires enough practice to understand what happens when the bullet goes subsonic.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/10/2016 at 17:01
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I love my .308s but not for 1000 yard shooting. Tikka would be my choice for a good production barrel rifle on a budget.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/10/2016 at 22:29
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I am familiar with shooting the .308 W at 1000 yard matches, I used the 175 grain Sierra. The 175 grain Sierra was designed to remain super sonic at ranges of 1000 yards when fired from all common .308 or 7.62X51 - it does this well enough.

Another application for the .308 W is Palma competition - 800, 900 & 1000. The rules say bullets must weigh 155 grains (unless this has been changed). Rifles commonly used have 27-29 inch long barrels, shoot 155 grain match bullets, and a commonly used load is 47 grains of Varget. Velocities approach 2950 fps (hot); this enables velocities to be over 1100 fps or so at 1000.

A modest 2650 or so with the 175 should barely be able to stay super sonic sonic at 1000 yards.

Needless to say the .308 W is not a hot shot 1000 yard cartridge but it has been used with good results at that range. Wonderful at 600 and great for hunting at up to 400.

Upon falling under super sonic or sub sonic, drag increased and bad stuff happens to such a degree it is unmanageable.

Of all the 6.5 mm cartridges the 6.5 Creedmore is probably the most all around useful and practical. Brass for my 6.5X47 Lapua costs about $1.20 per piece; this round might be the ultimate 300 meter target round and it gets out to 1000 nicely. The .260 Rem is also good but be prepared to load your own for it.



Edited by Stevey Ducks - February/11/2016 at 11:35
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/10/2016 at 23:58
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     " Veddy interesting......."   




Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/18/2016 at 14:08
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This is why if I need to shoot at something way out there with a .30 I will go for a .300 Win Mag or at least a .30-06. My favorite loads for the .300 Win are the 208 Amax with H1000 and for the '06 the 178 Amax or 175 Sierra with H4350.

The little .308 is limited by its small capacity.

All things being the same the .308 holds a slight edge in accuracy and less recoil making it a better match cartridge and this was confirmed by replacement of the old '06 by the .308 in the late 60's and early 70's.

For specific uses I have any number of both '06's and .308's.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/18/2016 at 15:13
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If you are a hand loader, I would not dismiss 6.5x47 Lapua so quickly.  It take small rifle primers, doesn't stretch much with use, and handles multiple reloads with ease. It also has a LONG neck, which is nice for varying seating depths.

I am very happy with my Tikka thus far (minus the stock, which sucks.  New McMillan should be here on Monday, problem solved!), their barrels are usually quite good for factory barrels, the bottom metal is actually metal, and the mag is quite robust.  My single complaint thus far is the ease with which the magazine detaches, the mag release is big and easy to engage.  And the mags aren't cheap, if you happen to lose one in the woods.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/18/2016 at 19:15
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Originally posted by cheaptrick cheaptrick wrote:

There's some sound wisdom from The Hive. I don't shoot to 1000 yards, but love the 20" barrel on my .308. 
There's a few of calibers that can get you out to 1000 yards better, well more efficiently, than the .308 Win.  
.308 Win does a lot of things pretty well, but is a master of none.....save marketing hype. Wink
I'm not a .308 hater either. 


No, you just neutered Black Betty! Poker

47.7grs. 2000MR Lapua palma brass 175gr Lapua Scenar bullet, CCI small rifle primers 2.815 COL 2725fps out of a 26 inch barrel. 600, 800, 900 and 1K.

I guess I'm just an ol' fart. Yes, i might get my butt handed to me on match day but I'll let you know Saturday afternoon how they did.  they do damn well out to 700.  I will take them to 1K tomorrow and shoot for score Saturday. Still can believe a brother would do that to his sexy.   
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