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1st loads using RE17 in my 270Win

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/26/2009 at 12:38
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Originally posted by trigger29 trigger29 wrote:

I was just curious, as my rifle took a similar tumble. Fortunately, my rifle has no marks to show for it. My scope has survived so far. I'm just hoping it is ok. It's been about 6 months so far, and lately it's been shot every day. Got to love heat waves.
If its been that long and you've shot it several different times I think it is good to go.  What brand / model is your scope?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/26/2009 at 16:58
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Why do bad things always seem to happen in slow motion?  Gets sickening having it replay in your mind.  Glad nothing else got ruined.  Not bad numbers from the reload, might have to try the stuff.  Is RE17 extruded, ball, or flake?  
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/26/2009 at 18:48
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Originally posted by SD Dog SD Dog wrote:

Why do bad things always seem to happen in slow motion?  Gets sickening having it replay in your mind.  Glad nothing else got ruined.  Not bad numbers from the reload, might have to try the stuff.  Is RE17 extruded, ball, or flake?  
RE17 is a new reformulation.  It is extruded and supposedly has simular burn characteristics as H4530.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/26/2009 at 18:54
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Originally posted by budperm budperm wrote:

Originally posted by SD Dog SD Dog wrote:

Why do bad things always seem to happen in slow motion?  Gets sickening having it replay in your mind.  Glad nothing else got ruined.  Not bad numbers from the reload, might have to try the stuff.  Is RE17 extruded, ball, or flake?  
RE17 is a new reformulation.  It is extruded and supposedly has simular burn characteristics as H4530.


Hey Bud look not right again!  Loco
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/26/2009 at 19:00
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Originally posted by budperm budperm wrote:

[

budperm, why do you think the stock is too short?  Your groups show no real indication of that.  If it is really too short, you should show a tendency to group to the right of your actual POA.  There are some fairly simple Q&D formulae for determining a ROM length of pull estimate, then there is the complex science for benchrest shooters.  
 
eeeh eeem.
[/QUOTE]  Sorry guys, missed this question.
 
Well truth be told I know nothing about sizing a rifle stock.  I do know that I am a little on the oversized side of things... 6'2" 280#+ and 38" long arms.  Fairly broad shouldered.   Usually it is my arm length that gives me troubles. 
 
For instance, I was chunking for yellowfin tuna with some friends off Ocean City, MD.  I hooked into a 50# tuna and it KICKED my butt!  I was trying to hold the pole by the handle.  This meant that with my long arms  I was fighting the tuna with my biceps and small of my back.  It was embarassing!  My buddies laughed and made fun of me, after all it was only a 50# fish.
The Captain of the charter pulled me aside and told me to lock my arms out straight next time.  I said that if I did that I would be holding the pole just behind the 2nd eyelet from the tip.  He said not to worry about the Tuna stick (Pole) it would survive.  Next hook-up I did what he said and the difference was completely amazing.  I had no trouble at all fighting and landing the tuna (another 50#er).
 
I have always felt more comfortable with a longer stock and barrel.  One of these days I need to research more on how to proper fit a rifle. You guys know of any websites or books on hthe subject???
[/QUOTE]
Bend your arm to 90 degrees and place the recoil pad in the crook of your elbow.  Trigger and grip should fall right where your hand is, measure from unflexed bicep (with arm crooked to 90deg) to your normal trigger pull point.  You might have to work with that a bit and maybe get someone to assist.  Most factory rifles come with about a 13.5in length of pull, trying to meet the needs of the "average shooter".  I am only 5'8" but have a longer than normal reach(good for boxing).  My LOP is 14.25-14.5", but I can adjust for average rifle stocks.  However, IF your length of pull really is short, you should show a tendency to group to the right of your point of aim.  It is possible you have adjusted over time, but your grouping does not show that indication/tendency.  Heavy clothing tends to have an impact, which is why people should practice with the gear they are going to wear while hunting/shooting in order to get a good feel for real field conditions.  

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/26/2009 at 19:00
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Originally posted by budperm budperm wrote:

Originally posted by trigger29 trigger29 wrote:

I was just curious, as my rifle took a similar tumble. Fortunately, my rifle has no marks to show for it. My scope has survived so far. I'm just hoping it is ok. It's been about 6 months so far, and lately it's been shot every day. Got to love heat waves.
If its been that long and you've shot it several different times I think it is good to go.  What brand / model is your scope?
 
Is a Conquest 4.5-14x44. I wouldn't have worried so much except for the side focus. It seems to be ok though.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/26/2009 at 19:18
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Originally posted by rifle looney rifle looney wrote:

Originally posted by budperm budperm wrote:

Originally posted by SD Dog SD Dog wrote:

Why do bad things always seem to happen in slow motion?  Gets sickening having it replay in your mind.  Glad nothing else got ruined.  Not bad numbers from the reload, might have to try the stuff.  Is RE17 extruded, ball, or flake?  
RE17 is a new reformulation.  It is extruded and supposedly has simular burn characteristics as H4530.


Hey Bud look not right again!  Loco
WHOOOPS, my bad transposed numbers, so sorry
 

Reloder® 17

Smokeless Short Magnum Rifle

With Reloder 17 reloaders have a powder that meters easy and consistently while providing maximum velocity even in extreme weather. This consistent performance is what reloaders have come to expect from Alliant Powder - and Reloder 17 doesn't disappoint.

  • Designed for short magnum case capacity
  • Similar burn speed to IMR 4350
  • Meters easily and consistently
  • Consistent maximum velocity in extreme weather conditions
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/26/2009 at 19:44
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Originally posted by Kickboxer Kickboxer wrote:

Originally posted by budperm budperm wrote:

[

budperm, why do you think the stock is too short?  Your groups show no real indication of that.  If it is really too short, you should show a tendency to group to the right of your actual POA.  There are some fairly simple Q&D formulae for determining a ROM length of pull estimate, then there is the complex science for benchrest shooters.  
 
eeeh eeem.
Bend your arm to 90 degrees and place the recoil pad in the crook of your elbow.  Trigger and grip should fall right where your hand is, measure from unflexed bicep (with arm crooked to 90deg) to your normal trigger pull point.  You might have to work with that a bit and maybe get someone to assist.  Most factory rifles come with about a 13.5in length of pull, trying to meet the needs of the "average shooter".  I am only 5'8" but have a longer than normal reach(good for boxing).  My LOP is 14.25-14.5", but I can adjust for average rifle stocks.  However, IF your length of pull really is short, you should show a tendency to group to the right of your point of aim.  It is possible you have adjusted over time, but your grouping does not show that indication/tendency.  Heavy clothing tends to have an impact, which is why people should practice with the gear they are going to wear while hunting/shooting in order to get a good feel for real field conditions.  

[/QUOTE] Thanks Kick!  I have heard "length of pull" mentioned here a couple of times but don't / didn't know what was meant by it.  If I understand you correctly I should measure from the middle of the relaxed bicep to trigger pull point with elbow bent at 90, correct?  Define Normal trigger pull point for me.  Is it with trigger finger curled as if resting on trigger? If so, My LOP is 15.75" +/-  Told ya, I have 38" long ape arms.  I did add a limb saver butt pad to the stock that added about 1.5-2" to stock length.

Is it possible I dialed out the right pull tendency when I sighted in the gun?  I sighted in shouldering gun and using sandbags on forstock.


Edited by budperm - February/26/2009 at 19:52
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/26/2009 at 19:48
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Hey Bud look not right again!  Loco
[/QUOTE] WHOOOPS, my bad transposed numbers, so sorry
 

Reloder® 17

Smokeless Short Magnum Rifle

With Reloder 17 reloaders have a powder that meters easy and consistently while providing maximum velocity even in extreme weather. This consistent performance is what reloaders have come to expect from Alliant Powder - and Reloder 17 doesn't disappoint.

  • Designed for short magnum case capacity
  • Similar burn speed to IMR 4350
  • Meters easily and consistently
  • Consistent maximum velocity in extreme weather conditions
[/QUOTE]   Thanks for keeping me straight RL, I would hate to give mis-information that caused someone harm!

Edited by budperm - February/26/2009 at 19:49
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/26/2009 at 22:42
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Originally posted by budperm budperm wrote:

Originally posted by Kickboxer Kickboxer wrote:

Originally posted by budperm budperm wrote:

[

budperm, why do you think the stock is too short?  Your groups show no real indication of that.  If it is really too short, you should show a tendency to group to the right of your actual POA.  There are some fairly simple Q&D formulae for determining a ROM length of pull estimate, then there is the complex science for benchrest shooters.  
 
eeeh eeem.
Bend your arm to 90 degrees and place the recoil pad in the crook of your elbow.  Trigger and grip should fall right where your hand is, measure from unflexed bicep (with arm crooked to 90deg) to your normal trigger pull point.  You might have to work with that a bit and maybe get someone to assist.  Most factory rifles come with about a 13.5in length of pull, trying to meet the needs of the "average shooter".  I am only 5'8" but have a longer than normal reach(good for boxing).  My LOP is 14.25-14.5", but I can adjust for average rifle stocks.  However, IF your length of pull really is short, you should show a tendency to group to the right of your point of aim.  It is possible you have adjusted over time, but your grouping does not show that indication/tendency.  Heavy clothing tends to have an impact, which is why people should practice with the gear they are going to wear while hunting/shooting in order to get a good feel for real field conditions.  

Thanks Kick!  I have heard "length of pull" mentioned here a couple of times but don't / didn't know what was meant by it.  If I understand you correctly I should measure from the middle of the relaxed bicep to trigger pull point with elbow bent at 90, correct?  Define Normal trigger pull point for me.  Is it with trigger finger curled as if resting on trigger? If so, My LOP is 15.75" +/-  Told ya, I have 38" long ape arms.  I did add a limb saver butt pad to the stock that added about 1.5-2" to stock length.

Is it possible I dialed out the right pull tendency when I sighted in the gun?  I sighted in shouldering gun and using sandbags on forstock.
[/QUOTE]
Yes, normal trigger pull point is as you described, at least as taught to me.  However, if you added 1.5 - 2.0in to a "normal" rifle stock, that should be right at 15.0-15.5in.  The "generalization" says that a person 6'2" tall should have a LOP of about 14in, but that is just a generalization.  Without a butt pad, I think you would be very uncomfortable shooting.  That is a LONG reach... ever think of boxing?  People who have long arms generally need a longer LOP.   There are more complex and "accurate" methods used by the benchrest guys to determine your ideal LOP.   Many of the tactical-type stocks have adjustable LOP with 4 inches or more of travel from about a 13.5 to 13.75in center.  That might be an option...  you can get some drop-in tactical style stocks at a pretty reasonable price.  

I believe, even after sighting in, you would have a tendency to group right, at least in follow-up shooting sessions.  It is possible that you have become accustomed to the shorter stock lengths since you have probably shot with them all your life, and in sighting in you are correcting out the tendency.  You would be, I think, more comfortable with a custom stock, built to your LOP or perhaps an adjustable.  Might tighten your groups (which from shown are not that bad) up.  
LOP is not the only consideration in fitting a stock and has gone from an art to a true science.  


Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/27/2009 at 07:09
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[/QUOTE] Thanks Kick!  I have heard "length of pull" mentioned here a couple of times but don't / didn't know what was meant by it.  If I understand you correctly I should measure from the middle of the relaxed bicep to trigger pull point with elbow bent at 90, correct?  Define Normal trigger pull point for me.  Is it with trigger finger curled as if resting on trigger? If so, My LOP is 15.75" +/-  Told ya, I have 38" long ape arms.  I did add a limb saver butt pad to the stock that added about 1.5-2" to stock length.

Is it possible I dialed out the right pull tendency when I sighted in the gun?  I sighted in shouldering gun and using sandbags on forstock.
[/QUOTE]
Yes, normal trigger pull point is as you described, at least as taught to me.  However, if you added 1.5 - 2.0in to a "normal" rifle stock, that should be right at 15.0-15.5in.  The "generalization" says that a person 6'2" tall should have a LOP of about 14in, but that is just a generalization.  Without a butt pad, I think you would be very uncomfortable shooting.  That is a LONG reach... ever think of boxing?  People who have long arms generally need a longer LOP.   There are more complex and "accurate" methods used by the benchrest guys to determine your ideal LOP.   Many of the tactical-type stocks have adjustable LOP with 4 inches or more of travel from about a 13.5 to 13.75in center.  That might be an option...  you can get some drop-in tactical style stocks at a pretty reasonable price.  

I believe, even after sighting in, you would have a tendency to group right, at least in follow-up shooting sessions.  It is possible that you have become accustomed to the shorter stock lengths since you have probably shot with them all your life, and in sighting in you are correcting out the tendency.  You would be, I think, more comfortable with a custom stock, built to your LOP or perhaps an adjustable.  Might tighten your groups (which from shown are not that bad) up.  
LOP is not the only consideration in fitting a stock and has gone from an art to a true science.  


[/QUOTE]   Thanks again Kick!  I did feel more comfortable after adding the butt pad.  It also seemed that it was easier to settle into the target.  I think that for hunting guns I'll probably just make do.  I have been toying with the idea of trying PD shooting and if I do I will go with one of the fully adjustable stocks.  I'll have to research the science.
 
AS for boxing, I found out in judo that I have a glass jaw. Clown
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/21/2009 at 11:35
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Just bringing this back to top of thread
 
Originally posted by budperm budperm wrote:

Well, I have definitely had better days at the range!  Everything started well, then went directly to h$ll in a hand basket!!!
 
I got to the range about 4:30pm. Sunny, little wind, no one else around.
I set up two stations, one at 100yds for the 270W and one at 50yds for the 8mm Mauser w/iron sights.  Set up the new Chrony on the 100ydr. 
 
I figured I'd warm up with 5 corelocks.  1st corelock clocked at 3083fps.  I didn't know they were loaded that hot.
2nd corelock...the muzzle blast sent the chrony flying and cracked one of the halo pieces.
Re-set up the chrony a little farther away and tried again.  Chrony again fell over.  I don't have a tripod for Chrony so I was using a fold-up TV dinner table and a couple of boxes stacked under Chrony.  About this time I hear something sliding on the shooting bench behind me and turn to watch my baby (270) slide off the sandbags bounce off the stool and hit the ground.  &$^@()%@#%*#@.  I picked her up and went over her with a fine tooth comb.  2 abbrasions on the stock one nick about 1" back from end of barrel.  *&^*@&_(&@$^%%.  Well after that I was needless to say in a BAD MOOD!
 
Set the Chrony to one side and test fired the 270.  Sure enough I had lost zero by 2+ inches left 1" high. *&%#%*.  Even better mood!  Took a 15 minute break to cool down..
 
Re-sighted in the scope using H4831SC 58gr.  She adjusted fine and zero walked right back in.  Huge sigh of relief.
 
Back to testing RE17.  Set up Chrony again, this time far enough away that muzzle blast wouldn't bother it.  Lesson learned.  Fired 5rnd group of RE17 52.7gr w/ 130gr Hornady Interbonds.  By this time light was fading fast and temp was dropping faster.
 
Speeds of RE17 @ 52.7gr w/ 130gr interbond
 
2958
2937
2929
2948
2963 fps
 
Ag 2947
Lo 2929
Hi 2963
spread 34
 
Shot a few rounds with mauser, new MoJo peepsight on rear.  World of difference!!! Thanks Dark Lord!!! Turns out mauser was set-up for 6 O'clock hold but off to left 3-4".  A couple of taps on front sight and bingo a bullseye!
 
Back to 270W and RE17
52.9gr RE17 130gr interbond Light failing fast.
1st shot 3020 fps
after that not enough light for chrony to sense bullets.
So I called it quits. Damn cold now too.
Packed up and headed for home!
 
So, if I do a little exstrapulation...
130gr interbond with 52.7gr RE17 avg . 2947fps
130gr interbond with 52.9gr RE17 spd. 3020fps could only clock one rnd do to low lite.
 
3020-2947=73fps delta.  Ballpark it to 60fps per 0.2gr increase in load
the 53.5gr load I shot last week that had POI 1.5" above zero was approxiamately cruising at 3187fps.  If I use the calculated 73fps per 0.2gr load increase that would put the 53.5gr charge at 3239fps.  I'd say that is pretty warm.
 
Weather and time permitting I will try again tomorrow to see if my reasoning tracks hard numbers.  I am posting this both here and in range report forum.
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Sorry to be so slow on adding to this string.  I have since acquired a Chrony and have actual numbers to report.
I was simultaniously developing loads for my 270Win using both H4831SC and RE17.
 
H4831SC w/ 130gr Hornady Interbonds  was late evening, chrony wasn't detecting well 45F
  
   57.0gr          57.5gr          58.0gr         58.5gr  H4831SC shot 1st, better light.
    2980              2961             3030             3101
    2955              2954             3017             3086
    2968              2934             3014             3129
    2957              2939             2998             3082
    2970              2941             3008             xxxxx
av2966.0           2945.8          3013.4          3099.5
lo 2955              2934             2998             3082
hi 2980              2961             3030             3129
es    25                  27                 32                 47
 
 
RE-17 w/ 130gr Hornady Interbond
  52.7gr.         52.9gr          53.1gr         53.3gr     light was lower temp dropping         
   2958              3033              2997            2996
   2937              3028              3069            3023
   2929              3029              3005            3085
   2948              xxxxx             2900            3093
av2943             3029              2992.8         3049.3
lo 2929             3028              2900            2996
hi 2958             3033              3069            3093
es    29                 5                    31                97
these numbers didn't make since to me so i decided to repeat test before reporting.
 
 
Different day and reloading
 
H4831SC w/ 130gr Hornady Interbonds  62F sunny
    58.0gr        58.5gr          59.0gr         59.5gr
     3057           3085              3113            3131
     3056           3085              3112            3139
     3064           3074              3102            3126
     xxxxx          3074              3117            3136
     xxxxx          3091              3107            3138
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