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1st loads using RE17 in my 270Win

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RONK View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RONK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/15/2009 at 19:02
Originally posted by helo18 helo18 wrote:

Bud,

A chrony isn't going to tell you if you have reached an unsafe level.  I applaud your safety though! Excellent  If you start seeing pressure signs, then you are starting to get to that point, and should back off.  If you have not see those signs, you are safe to keep going, assuming your gun is in good condition.  With 130 gr bullets, even @ 3100 fps, it shouldn't be kicking hard enough to even scope you.  Seeing your groups, you can shoot fine, so I am guessing that going up is not going to bother you at all.

You are making me really want to go do some loading for my guns, but I have to build a bench first.  Guess I better get on that.
 Helo's got a good point there which I neglected to mention- that a Chrony is an important tool, but it cannot take the place of careful observation of all the pressure signs you need to watch for!
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote budperm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/15/2009 at 19:14
Originally posted by helo18 helo18 wrote:

Bud,

A chrony isn't going to tell you if you have reached an unsafe level.  I applaud your safety though! Excellent  If you start seeing pressure signs, then you are starting to get to that point, and should back off.  If you have not see those signs, you are safe to keep going, assuming your gun is in good condition.  With 130 gr bullets, even @ 3100 fps, it shouldn't be kicking hard enough to even scope you.  Seeing your groups, you can shoot fine, so I am guessing that going up is not going to bother you at all.

You are making me really want to go do some loading for my guns, but I have to build a bench first.  Guess I better get on that.
 
I agree that the Chrony won't tell the whole story.  I am being carefull for a number of reasons.  I read an artical that showed just changing primers between CCI 200, Winchester LR and Ferderal 210s could cause a significant difference in internal pressure.
All the load datas I have seen for the RE17 in 270Win have been using Federal primers.
Other pressure data for differnt loads seem to indicate that changing to CCI 200 primers increase internal pressures and using magnum, primer makes it even worse.  I am after finding the load that performs the best in my gun.  Not the hottest load I can safely fire.
I'll do the rest with Kentuckey windage the old fashion way!
 
On that note, let me ask again, what are all the high pressure signs I should be looking for?
 
I have seen no signs of primer flattening, no distortion of the casings.  The primers don't seem to be any harder or easier to seat on reloading.  I have noticed that my winchester brass pockets are more snug than my remington brass but they have always been that way.  I which from Lee's auto loader to the hand primer per Rifle looney's suggestion so I could better feel the primers seating.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rifle looney Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/15/2009 at 19:17
If none of that nor sticky  or hard bolt lift you are still good.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 300S&W Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/15/2009 at 19:38
.

Edited by 300S&W - February/15/2009 at 20:26
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote helo18 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/15/2009 at 20:01
Bud,

I used to be the type that always thought faster was better.  I will still push it as fast as I can without pressure signs, and loss of accuracy.  With my 270, shooting 140 gr rounds, it shot better at faster velocities (smaller groups).  With 150 gr, I had to back off to get good groups.  Then I moved and no longer have a loading bench (which I am starting to plan out) and have not been able to play like I used to do.  If you like you loads where they are, and feel no need to go up, then stay where you are.  I will see if I can get ahold of some RL-17 and do some loading off my own with the 130 gr Innerbonds.  Keep us posted as to how your new batch shoots.
To be prepared for War is one of the most effectual means of preserving peace.

GEORGE WASHINGTON
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote budperm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/15/2009 at 20:54
Originally posted by helo18 helo18 wrote:

Bud,

I used to be the type that always thought faster was better.  I will still push it as fast as I can without pressure signs, and loss of accuracy.  With my 270, shooting 140 gr rounds, it shot better at faster velocities (smaller groups).  With 150 gr, I had to back off to get good groups.  Then I moved and no longer have a loading bench (which I am starting to plan out) and have not been able to play like I used to do.  If you like you loads where they are, and feel no need to go up, then stay where you are.  I will see if I can get ahold of some RL-17 and do some loading off my own with the 130 gr Innerbonds.  Keep us posted as to how your new batch shoots.
 
Well quit stalling Andy, Get that bench set-up!  I am sure there are times when you can't be buzzing the countryside in the eggbeater.  God you must get to enjoy some truely Awesome scenery it that thing!  Shooting, hunting and flying, oh and the occasional trout stream  ...now that's lovin life!
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Steelbenz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/15/2009 at 21:21
I've noticed with my .308 after about 2775 fps with 168s the groups tend to open back up. So I think your right faster is not always better.
 


Edited by Steelbenz - February/15/2009 at 21:22
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote budperm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/16/2009 at 06:35
Originally posted by Steelbenz Steelbenz wrote:

I've noticed with my .308 after about 2775 fps with 168s the groups tend to open back up. So I think your right faster is not always better.
 
  Since I started this adventure (reloading) in January, the 1st 2 books I bought were Hornady's 7th Edition and Lee's 2nd Edition on Loading since I decided to start with Lee's equipment.  I believe that in the lee's book he always indicates the load that produces the smallest groupings and that it is seldom the hottest load. It seemed that for his equipmnet it was usually 1 to 1.5gr below Max.  now I know that it will vary from caliber to caliber, gun model to model, manuf to manuf etc... So its barrel specific behavior.  Thats half the fun on shooting and reloading is to find the sweet spot for each bullet weight & type as well as powder & primer combos.  Oh and lets NOT forget, lot to lot changes of powder.  all this for each gun you have.  One gun has been keeping me busy so far.  Thats why I started a 3 ring binder saving targets and notes during development.  Since I plan on having multiple loads for each gun I will transfer the end results to a reloading bible.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote geezer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/16/2009 at 08:29
Bud,
 
One more variable to play with is seating depth.  When you get your powder charge where you want it, you might close the group up some more by working with the seating depth.  I have had ver ygood results by moving in or out as little as 10 thousandths.
I would give you my two cents worth, but then you would probably have to give half to the gov't and what good is one penny
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote budperm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/16/2009 at 09:02
Originally posted by geezer geezer wrote:

Bud,
 
One more variable to play with is seating depth.  When you get your powder charge where you want it, you might close the group up some more by working with the seating depth.  I have had ver ygood results by moving in or out as little as 10 thousandths.
 
Good point geeze, right now I have the die set to seat Nosler ballistic tips 0.015" off the lands.  I am willing to bet that the interbonds are probably a little farther off due to the difference in ogive.  Once I shoot the reloads I loaded yesterday, I'll play with the seating depth.  it would be interesting to do a 4 corner study with various depths and loads and see how they plot out.  I would be willing to venture that there is a optimal load for each depth.  I may run out of bullest again at this rate. LOL


Edited by budperm - February/16/2009 at 09:03
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BeltFed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/17/2009 at 16:16
Bud, you asked about preassure signs. I'm sure RONK can expand on this, but some of them to watch for are: flattened and/or cratered primers, stiff or hard to lift bolt. There are more, but one thing I like to do is measure the casehead at the web. I measure the casehead after full length sizing. After firing I measure the casehead again, if the casehead increases .001-.002 then the load is probably ok. Anything over .002 is getting into high preassure. I'm one of those conservative folks, so I like to stop when the load goes from .001 to .002. This keeps me in the mid-range of the loading data for the most part, but I still got my face and my rifle (knock on wood).
Life's concerns should be about the 120lb pack your trying to get to the top of the mountain, and not the rock in your boot.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote budperm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/18/2009 at 06:22
Originally posted by BeltFed BeltFed wrote:

Bud, you asked about preassure signs. I'm sure RONK can expand on this, but some of them to watch for are: flattened and/or cratered primers, stiff or hard to lift bolt. There are more, but one thing I like to do is measure the casehead at the web. I measure the casehead after full length sizing. After firing I measure the casehead again, if the casehead increases .001-.002 then the load is probably ok. Anything over .002 is getting into high preassure. I'm one of those conservative folks, so I like to stop when the load goes from .001 to .002. This keeps me in the mid-range of the loading data for the most part, but I still got my face and my rifle (knock on wood).
Lynn,
Thanks for the info and tips.  We are on the same page as far as safety goes on guns or anything that is held that close to your face.  As long as they group well, I am happy  the rest is windage and knowing your limits.  Cool
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pyro6999 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/18/2009 at 11:33
i would recommend you try using sierra bullets
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote budperm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/18/2009 at 11:46
Originally posted by pyro6999 pyro6999 wrote:

i would recommend you try using sierra bullets
 
Haven't really researched Sierra bullets... What's so special about them?
I originally set my sights on Hornady SSTs because I wanted a bullet that would perform well at the range and hunting.  SSTs with their poly ballistic tip and boat tail seem to be just the ticket and at $25 per 100 reasonible.  I started with Nosler BTs simply because they were available an a close copy of the SSTs ballistically.
 
Both Grafs and competitor just restocked 130gr ssts in 277
 


Edited by budperm - February/18/2009 at 11:48
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pyro6999 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/18/2009 at 11:49
ask trigger about his recent success with sierra, ive been using them for years, they have to be the most accurate bullets you can buy for there price, and i havent ever had a sierra fail me.
They call me "Boots"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RONK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/18/2009 at 19:52
  The pressure warning signs I watch out for are these:
 
 Unusually sharp recoil or muzzle blast.
 
 A fall-off in accuracy.
 
 Difficult bolt lift/extraction.
 
 Primers are flattened, sometimes out to the edges of the primer pocket.
 
 Primers are cratered; this is a little difficult to describe.  It's almost as if the primer started to ooze itself around the exposed firing pin. It may show up as a tiny burr around the firing pin impression on the fired primer. This can be exascerbated by a worn firing pin or an oversized firing pin hole in the bolt face.
 
 Pierced primers.
 
A shiny spot on the head of the fired case head, which upon inspection corresponds to the ejector slot or hole in the bolt face, (depending on the rifle).
 This is caused by high pressure pushing the cartride case brass so far into the bolt face that a small amount is actually sheared off when the bolt is rotated by lifting the bolt handle, the case itself still stuck to the chamber walls until the bolt is rotated further. There may be tiny brass shavings in the action and/or in the ejector slot of the bolt when this occurs.
 
Loose primers. This is usually evident in the priming process during the next loading. This is caused by the case head expansion mentioned by Belt Fed.
I usually don't measure for that, but it is certainly a very good idea, as long as you know what your "before" measurement is to compare it to the "after"..
 
 
 Rifle turns to shrapnel upon firing. Eek This is a definite warning sign!
 
 I'm sure there are others, but those are what I watch for.


Edited by RONK - February/18/2009 at 20:31
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote budperm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/19/2009 at 06:35
Thanks guys.  I learned some new things to check for...Glad I asked.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote trigger29 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/19/2009 at 08:36
Originally posted by RONK RONK wrote:

  The pressure warning signs I watch out for are these:
 
  
 Rifle turns to shrapnel upon firing. Eek This is a definite warning sign!
 
 I'm sure there are others, but those are what I watch for.
That doesn't mean throw 5 more grains of powder at it!??? I must have gotten confused somewhere.Big Smile

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RONK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/19/2009 at 17:47
Originally posted by budperm budperm wrote:

Thanks guys.  I learned some new things to check for...Glad I asked.
 
The only stupid question is teh unasked one!
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote budperm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/19/2009 at 19:11
Originally posted by RONK RONK wrote:

Originally posted by budperm budperm wrote:

Thanks guys.  I learned some new things to check for...Glad I asked.
 
The only stupid question is teh unasked one!
 
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EekBow.....CrutchBabyStareYep, Thought SoBucky.
 
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