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1st loads using RE17 in my 270Win

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/14/2009 at 17:13
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Well I just got back from the range.  Excellent conditions. 42F 0-3 mph headwind and overcsast skies.  Had the range to myself.  Big Grin
 
I loaded up 6 rounds each using Remington brass, CCI 200 LR primers and 130gr Hornady Interbond bullets.
Powder used was Alliant RE17 52.0, 52.5, 53.0, 53.5gr.
 
I changed nothing on scope or gun.  Savage 110FP w/ Accu-trigger, Bushnell Elite 4200 2.5-10X40mm zeroed using 130gr Nosler BTs and 56gr H4831SC.
 
Warmed up firing last 9 rounds of Noslers. 
 
I then worked my way up the powder scale from 52grs NE17 to 53.5grs. 
I shot 6 round groups because I think it gives alot more info and better indication of grouping.  (I also was low on targets Clown)
 
As can be seen in following pix...
 
52grs seemed to group in pairs but overall scattered.
 
52.5grs pulled in noticably and was well centered to noslers sight in of scope.
 
53.0grs tightest grouping but trending high, all above the horizontal.
 
53.5grs (only 3 rnd grouping),  Noticably higher than rest grouping starting to scatter.
 
It appears from this that my gun likes 53grs +/- of RE17 for 130gr Interbond.
My next step in to load 6s of 52.4, 52.6, 52.8, 53.0 and 53.2grs and see what I see.
 
I am shooting off the bench using stacked bags on forestock and shouldering the butt.  I am still working on my form and breathing and PATIENCE.  This along with being new to reloading and using a scope.  I am quite happy with the results so far.  I have restricted myself to the 100yd range my 1st 3 trips to the range but think I might squeeze a few on the 200 and 300yd range next trip.
 
 
 
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/14/2009 at 17:42
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What # is your trigger set at?  Did you adjust it?  I need to adjust mine on my 9317.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/14/2009 at 18:44
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Originally posted by Tip69 Tip69 wrote:

What # is your trigger set at?  Did you adjust it?  I need to adjust mine on my 9317.
 
The info that came with my gun stated that it was factory set for 3#.  It is pretty light so I think that is accurate.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/14/2009 at 19:42
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I'd be happy with any and all, pretty decent groups.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/14/2009 at 20:08
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Originally posted by lucytuma lucytuma wrote:

I'd be happy with any and all, pretty decent groups.
 
Thanks Luc, I do what I can with what I got.  I think my stock is too short for me but can't afford to get  a custom.  If I had a wheelbarrel of money I'd you get a custom sized one or five heh heh heh Bandito
 
We have an abundace of groundhogs around here.  I want to work up a varmint load an offer my services to local farmers.  I find it amazing... groundhogs are too stupid to dodge cars but won't let a human within 100 yds.  Maybe doing that  would open some doors for deer hunting.   Most farmers don't want to let stranges hunt their land around here.


Edited by budperm - February/14/2009 at 21:07
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/14/2009 at 20:20
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Very nice Bud. I wish my wsm wasn't so picky. It either shoots tiny little groups, or all over the place so far. There doesn't seem to be any in between. Looks like your savage shot all of those pretty well. It's good to see groups from another new reloader. I figured if I did everything consistant, and weighed everything, and measured everything, they should just shoot great. I see now, that isn't always the case. Nice work.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/14/2009 at 20:24
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Bud if yo stock be 2 shote geta slip on padd an pu it ofer wha u got an dat wil hep yall. I doood dis an et wrk 4me.    Wink
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/14/2009 at 20:45
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Did you see any pressure signs?  If not I would keep going up.  You might find that you gun likes it faster.  Also, do you have velocities on the loads?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/14/2009 at 21:31
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Originally posted by trigger29 trigger29 wrote:

Very nice Bud. I wish my wsm wasn't so picky. It either shoots tiny little groups, or all over the place so far. There doesn't seem to be any in between. Looks like your savage shot all of those pretty well. It's good to see groups from another new reloader. I figured if I did everything consistant, and weighed everything, and measured everything, they should just shoot great. I see now, that isn't always the case. Nice work.
Thanks Trigger!
Practice makes perfect... The problem we have is that there is too many variables (learning curves) at once.  I currently seperate brass by manu.  weight powder to within .02grains using digital scale.  I found the drop feeder to be totally inconsistant in its throws.  The balance type powder scale is very accurate but painfully slow.  I found a digital scale on eBay with .02grain resolution for $29.95 its capacity is 20 grams so it covers all loads I'll ever make.  I use the drop feeder to get close then a trickler to dial in the charge I want.
I currently set the bullets .015" off the lands.  Finally I only neck resize and find it takes a litte practice to get good repeatability there.  I find paying close attention during the bullet seating, to the level of seating resistance, as a good indication of proper and uniform neck sizing.  It is all touchy feely but that is one of the things I have always seemed to have a good aptitude for.  Accuracy is in the details.  Take your time reloading.  I usually reload 20 or so loads an evening.  Pay attention to every detail during reloading and it will return dividends! Big Grin


Edited by budperm - February/15/2009 at 00:02
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/14/2009 at 21:34
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Originally posted by rifle looney rifle looney wrote:

Bud if yo stock be 2 shote geta slip on padd an pu it ofer wha u got an dat wil hep yall. I doood dis an et wrk 4me.    Wink
Smile LOL RL want ARE you doing with your good hand...instead of typing? 
I did add a recoil suppressor butt pad.  It added about 2 inches to stock length and helped alot with the long action kick.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/14/2009 at 21:36
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/14/2009 at 21:52
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Originally posted by helo18 helo18 wrote:

Did you see any pressure signs?  If not I would keep going up.  You might find that you gun likes it faster.  Also, do you have velocities on the loads?
 
No.  No signs of high pressure, but the definite walk up on POI on the 53 and 53.5gr loads concerned me.  I am going to remain conservative until I can get a Chrono to check velocities and stay below 53.5gr.  I sent an inquiry to Alliant for loading data using CCI 200 and 130gr interbonds as well as SSts.  I'll post their reply.  Currently all their data sites Speer bullets and Federal 210 primers for thr RE17 loads.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/14/2009 at 21:57
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Originally posted by budperm budperm wrote:

Originally posted by helo18 helo18 wrote:

Did you see any pressure signs?  If not I would keep going up.  You might find that you gun likes it faster.  Also, do you have velocities on the loads?
 
No.  No signs of high pressure, but the definite walk up on POI on the 53 and 53.5gr loads concerned me.  I am going to remain conservative until I can get a Chrono to check velocities and stay below 53.5gr.  I sent an inquiry to Alliant for loading data using CCI 200 and 130gr interbonds as well as SSts.  I'll post their reply.  Currently all their data sites Speer bullets and Federal 210 primers for thr RE17 loads.


Your POI will be higher if you don't move the scope, because the bullet is moving faster and flying flatter.  As long as the group size is not expanding, I would keep going, but that is just me.  If you have no pressure signs, you are still in the safe range.  I have seen guns where the group shrinks with more velocity, but that is not always the case.  Up to you though.  I would be ok with any of those groups!  Good shooting! Thunbs Up
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/14/2009 at 23:54
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Originally posted by helo18 helo18 wrote:


Your POI will be higher if you don't move the scope, because the bullet is moving faster and flying flatter.  As long as the group size is not expanding, I would keep going, but that is just me.  If you have no pressure signs, you are still in the safe range.  I have seen guns where the group shrinks with more velocity, but that is not always the case.  Up to you though.  I would be ok with any of those groups!  Good shooting! Thunbs Up
Yes POI should be higher.  It indicated to me that both 53.0 & 53.5gr RE17 loads had higher velocity than 59gr H4831SC loads I warmed up with.  (9 rounds that all stayed within 1/2" of zero elavation line on target) That tells me from the Hornady 7th Ed. book that I above 3000FPS with the RE17 loads above 53gr.  I don't have enough experience or feel to know how much rise to expect for a 100-200fps gain.  I think I will wait for the Chrono, don't want to eat a scope or bolt.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/15/2009 at 12:55
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 WHOA!
 Don't make the mistake of assuming that your P.O.I. will be higher on the target at 100 yards becase it's moving slightly faster; the opposite is more often true.
 
Here's why: the slower bullet is in the barrel a bit longer, and exits the bore after recoil has flipped the barrel upward a smidgeon higher. The effect is more pronounced in handguns, but occurs in long barrelled rifles as well.
 
Vibrating barrel harmonics also play a solid role.
 
It's not that it's shooting"flatter" ,(especially in relation to the line of bore), but it can seem so.
 Want to know how fast your bullets are flying? Get a chronograph!Wink
 * edited to note that I see that you ARE planning to get one.
 
 Good shooting, and keep an eye on those pressure signs!


Edited by RONK - February/15/2009 at 12:58
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/15/2009 at 17:56
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Originally posted by RONK RONK wrote:

 WHOA!
 Don't make the mistake of assuming that your P.O.I. will be higher on the target at 100 yards becase it's moving slightly faster; the opposite is more often true.
 
Here's why: the slower bullet is in the barrel a bit longer, and exits the bore after recoil has flipped the barrel upward a smidgeon higher. The effect is more pronounced in handguns, but occurs in long barrelled rifles as well.
 
Vibrating barrel harmonics also play a solid role.
 
It's not that it's shooting"flatter" ,(especially in relation to the line of bore), but it can seem so.
 Want to know how fast your bullets are flying? Get a chronograph!Wink
 * edited to note that I see that you ARE planning to get one.
 
 Good shooting, and keep an eye on those pressure signs!
 
Thanks for the input Ronk!  Things don't always act like you think they act.  I've seen the barrel on a rifle during firing using super hi speed photography and the barrel actually looked like it rared back and spit the bullet out.  Regardless, the POI definitely walked up about 3/4" for each of the last  two 0.5gr increases in RE17.  The gun was zeroed using 56gr of H4831SC and I shot 9 rounds at 59gr of H4831SC before starting on the RE17 loads.  Even at 59grs of H4831SC I saw less than 0.5" walk-up.  59gr of 31SC shoulld have me around 2950fps Max max of 31SC is 62gr @ 3100fps.  I'll play it safe and wait till I get a Chrony before I load any hotter.


Edited by budperm - February/15/2009 at 17:57
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Originally posted by budperm budperm wrote:

Originally posted by RONK RONK wrote:

 WHOA!
 Don't make the mistake of assuming that your P.O.I. will be higher on the target at 100 yards becase it's moving slightly faster; the opposite is more often true.
 
Here's why: the slower bullet is in the barrel a bit longer, and exits the bore after recoil has flipped the barrel upward a smidgeon higher. The effect is more pronounced in handguns, but occurs in long barrelled rifles as well.
 
Vibrating barrel harmonics also play a solid role.
 
It's not that it's shooting"flatter" ,(especially in relation to the line of bore), but it can seem so.
 Want to know how fast your bullets are flying? Get a chronograph!Wink
 * edited to note that I see that you ARE planning to get one.
 
 Good shooting, and keep an eye on those pressure signs!
 
Thanks for the input Ronk!  Things don't always act like you think they act.  I've seen the barrel on a rifle during firing using super hi speed photography and the barrel actually looked like it rared back and spit the bullet out.  Regardless, the POI definitely walked up about 3/4" for each of the last  two 0.5gr increases in RE17.  The gun was zeroed using 56gr of H4831SC and I shot 9 rounds at 59gr of H4831SC before starting on the RE17 loads.  Even at 59grs of H4831SC I saw less than 0.5" walk-up.  59gr of 31SC shoulld have me around 2950fps Max max of 31SC is 62gr @ 3100fps.  I'll play it safe and wait till I get a Chrony before I load any hotter.
 
It was the level or amount of change to POI for a relatively small increase in powder that worried me.  Maybe it is just a sweet spot in the harmonics of that barrel or maybe it is an indication of crossing some threshold.  I am ugly enough aready, I don't need my gun blowing up in my face to help the matter.  I'll let the chrony talk first before going further.
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/15/2009 at 18:08
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 Yeah,  I've seen high speed images that actually show the barrel bulging slightly as the bullet passes through it, something like a snake swallowing a rabbit!
 Seeing that makes it easy to understand why a rifle often hits high when the barrel is rested directly on a hard object and why a free-floated barrel often shoots better.
 I like the H4831, and the SC configuration sure makes a difference in flowability, doesn't it?.
 Great propellent for many uses.
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Bud,

A chrony isn't going to tell you if you have reached an unsafe level.  I applaud your safety though! Excellent  If you start seeing pressure signs, then you are starting to get to that point, and should back off.  If you have not see those signs, you are safe to keep going, assuming your gun is in good condition.  With 130 gr bullets, even @ 3100 fps, it shouldn't be kicking hard enough to even scope you.  Seeing your groups, you can shoot fine, so I am guessing that going up is not going to bother you at all.

You are making me really want to go do some loading for my guns, but I have to build a bench first.  Guess I better get on that.
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Originally posted by RONK RONK wrote:

 Yeah,  I've seen high speed images that actually show the barrel bulging slightly as the bullet passes through it, something like a snake swallowing a rabbit!
 Seeing that makes it easy to understand why a rifle often hits high when the barrel is rested directly on a hard object and why a free-floated barrel often shoots better.
 I like the H4831, and the SC configuration sure makes a difference in flowability, doesn't it?.
 Great propellent for many uses.
The cross-section of the kernels is large.  Being new to loading I haven't seen the regular cut but can only imagine it is a pain to get into the casings.  If I just dump instead of pour the SC into the funnel it still jambs at the casing entrance.  31SC is what I started with.  I also have H4895 intended to be used in both my 270Win and my Son's 308.  I made a few 270 loads up using the H4895 but haven't really concentrated on developing a load yet.  Then I got hooked on trying RE17 after reading the reviews.  Just found some of the RE17 last week,  I also picked up Varget and more 31SC.  So, I am set for a while in teh powder area.
 
I spent today working up 52.3, 52.5, 52.7, 52.9, 53.1 and 53.3gr RE17 loads for the 130gr intrebonds abd also worked up 57, 57.5 58, 58.5, 59.0gr 31SC loads.
 
I am not one for teh hottest possible loads.  I want the most repeatable and tightist groups.  I'll take care of the rest.
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Originally posted by helo18 helo18 wrote:

Bud,

A chrony isn't going to tell you if you have reached an unsafe level.  I applaud your safety though! Excellent  If you start seeing pressure signs, then you are starting to get to that point, and should back off.  If you have not see those signs, you are safe to keep going, assuming your gun is in good condition.  With 130 gr bullets, even @ 3100 fps, it shouldn't be kicking hard enough to even scope you.  Seeing your groups, you can shoot fine, so I am guessing that going up is not going to bother you at all.

You are making me really want to go do some loading for my guns, but I have to build a bench first.  Guess I better get on that.
 Helo's got a good point there which I neglected to mention- that a Chrony is an important tool, but it cannot take the place of careful observation of all the pressure signs you need to watch for!
 
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Originally posted by helo18 helo18 wrote:

Bud,

A chrony isn't going to tell you if you have reached an unsafe level.  I applaud your safety though! Excellent  If you start seeing pressure signs, then you are starting to get to that point, and should back off.  If you have not see those signs, you are safe to keep going, assuming your gun is in good condition.  With 130 gr bullets, even @ 3100 fps, it shouldn't be kicking hard enough to even scope you.  Seeing your groups, you can shoot fine, so I am guessing that going up is not going to bother you at all.

You are making me really want to go do some loading for my guns, but I have to build a bench first.  Guess I better get on that.
 
I agree that the Chrony won't tell the whole story.  I am being carefull for a number of reasons.  I read an artical that showed just changing primers between CCI 200, Winchester LR and Ferderal 210s could cause a significant difference in internal pressure.
All the load datas I have seen for the RE17 in 270Win have been using Federal primers.
Other pressure data for differnt loads seem to indicate that changing to CCI 200 primers increase internal pressures and using magnum, primer makes it even worse.  I am after finding the load that performs the best in my gun.  Not the hottest load I can safely fire.
I'll do the rest with Kentuckey windage the old fashion way!
 
On that note, let me ask again, what are all the high pressure signs I should be looking for?
 
I have seen no signs of primer flattening, no distortion of the casings.  The primers don't seem to be any harder or easier to seat on reloading.  I have noticed that my winchester brass pockets are more snug than my remington brass but they have always been that way.  I which from Lee's auto loader to the hand primer per Rifle looney's suggestion so I could better feel the primers seating.
 
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If none of that nor sticky  or hard bolt lift you are still good.
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Edited by 300S&W - February/15/2009 at 20:26
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Bud,

I used to be the type that always thought faster was better.  I will still push it as fast as I can without pressure signs, and loss of accuracy.  With my 270, shooting 140 gr rounds, it shot better at faster velocities (smaller groups).  With 150 gr, I had to back off to get good groups.  Then I moved and no longer have a loading bench (which I am starting to plan out) and have not been able to play like I used to do.  If you like you loads where they are, and feel no need to go up, then stay where you are.  I will see if I can get ahold of some RL-17 and do some loading off my own with the 130 gr Innerbonds.  Keep us posted as to how your new batch shoots.
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