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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/18/2010 at 13:21
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some of you 1911 guys wanna explain to me about all these variants out there in the 1911 market. whats the difference between the series 70 and the series 80?? is there certain things to look for at gun shows when looking at some of the older used 1911's?? tell me all you can.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/18/2010 at 13:48
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Tagged for interest.Bandito
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/18/2010 at 15:32
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Wow, so much to say.

The 80-series have a firing pin block, the originals do not (nor is it needed, unless they are lawyer-mandated in your state.)

On the gun show part, I recommend you adhere stringently to the "too good to be true" wisdom.  Unless you are an authority on 1911s, never believe you are getting an unbelievable deal, too many people put too much work into making a worthless piece of crap look like something it ain't.

It has been said one can learn to shoot, in combat situations, a 1911 faster than any other service pistol, I kinda agree.  A 1911 falls easily into the category of "easy to learn, hard to master", buy it only if you plan to put the requisite time into the platform to become proficient.


I am a 1911 fan, it points perfectly for me, I know the controls, I know how it handles, and I have trained extensively on what to do when things go wrong; without all that, buy a Glock and live happily ever after.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/18/2010 at 15:35
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i hate glocks, they dont fit me at all. the 1911's fit my hand like a glove.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/18/2010 at 15:37
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I was just about to say the same thing Hunter....Glocks as popular and reliable as they are, i will never spend the money because they don't fit my hand at all. With pistols,  getting a gun that feels right is a must. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/18/2010 at 15:40
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I honestly wonder how many thousands of glocks are simply sold on name alone. Their platform hasn't changed much over the years and really only with generation 4's have made any significant improvements in ergonomics (and that still ain't saying much imo). They're recoil heavy due to light nature as well. I've never drank the cool aid.


Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/18/2010 at 15:40
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i agree, and ive tried several models out, the only ones i havent are the single stacked ones, but the angle of glocks grip seems odd to me.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/18/2010 at 15:48
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I think the Smith M&Ps are superior to the Glocks as far as ergonomics are concerned.  

Edited by Ed Connelly - December/18/2010 at 15:49
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/18/2010 at 16:40
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Originally posted by Ed Connelly Ed Connelly wrote:

I think the Smith M&Ps are superior to the Glocks as far as ergonomics are concerned.  
I'm with you on that, Ed. Also, the FN FNP's are designed well. I was never a fan of plastic pistols until I handled the Smith M&P series. Walthers are also great.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/18/2010 at 17:43
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The only 1911 I have left is a Colt that has been polished and ramped. It eats everything. I am with Jeff on the gun.
As far as Glocks go, I have a 20 and a 19. I carry both 3/4 of the time (because I have a HK USP .45). The 9mm in the city and the 10mm up at "my place". They just plain work all of the time. As for grip angle, it took me a little while to adjust, but they lie somewhere between a 1911 and most of Colt and S&W revolvers I have with old style grips. They can point high.
You cannot go wrong with a quality 1911. The safety is in the right spot. They are relatively flat for concealed carry and they come in one of the best auto cartridges of all time.
That being said, I'll take my Glocks or USP any day of the week.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/18/2010 at 20:21
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IF I were getting -one- it would be the Commander.  I have Government models, Commanders and officers models.  THE -PERFECT- carry gun would be an Officers frame that has been "high cut" with a Commander silde.   Colt produced a few of those, but the market wants a short barrel.
 
Government model has a 5" barrel.  The Gold Cup is a "match grade" gun.  It is government lenght slide with an adjustable sight (That has its own problems), a slightly differant trigger and the barrel if fitted differant.
 
  Commander has a 4.25" barrel and a Government lenght frame witha short dust cover to match the barrel and slide.  If you put a Commander silde on a government you will see the dust cover will be longer.  This gun is a bit faster to draw and carry, but has the punch. It comes in an alloy version.  These guns are a bit pickier to shot and like some extra grip. The barrel has more tilt to it and an extened ejector.  DO NOT USE A SHOCK BUFFER (They can short stroke the gun).
 
The Officers Model is a 3.5"slide and a one round short frame. There is a 3" version as well now.  They come in an alloy version as well.  NEVER USE A SHOCK BUFFER! I had George Huening tune mine up and it was a dream to shoot and carry, it just lacked punch.  They can be very picky to shoot and "limp wrist" VERY easy. I had an after market guide rod and spring set up from a list member. It would go about 250 rounds before getting 1" of  spring compression.  With +P I'd get less than 50 rounds before compression.
 
Stuff to look for... Fit of the barrel and slide are everything.   Many Colts have the slide cocked to the ejection port side and the slide may rub the dust cover.  They are normally come with a loose barrel bushing  so the gun shoot straight.  Look at the slide vertical fit.  It should not be springing.  A vertical Gap can be Ok but is not prefered.  The gun should not rattel when shaken.  There are a lot of people who disagree with that.  Some guns are tight only because the ejector is oversized.   The slide does not need to be extra tight unless that is what you have paid for that.  It just need to run straight and not rattel. 
 
The next thing is the trigger.  It should be not be to heavy or light.  There are lots of bubba trigger jobs.  A 6# trigger will work fine if it is reasonably smooth. 
 
The extractor is the biggest trouble out of the box.  They are often not fit right.  It should have a bow to it.  It should hold round against the face of the breach.  If the firing pin stop is loose it will cause the extractor to move around.
 
IS that a good start? 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/18/2010 at 22:34
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On 1911's some can be finicky.  Fortunately, I haven't had any significant issues with that.  If you reload, a 1911 accuracy and reliability can be tweaked by finding the optimum "tapper crimp" of the case mouth.  But above all else, make sure you use good quality magazines.  Also, on trigger pulls, if you're not sure of what your doing I'd leave it to a professional.  
 
I like my Glocks.  They're uglier than all-get out but they just keep going...and going...!  I too have found the full size 45 and 10mm models (20 & 21 IIRC) are a tad large for my like but the 40's and 9mm fir pretty good to me.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/19/2010 at 03:40
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1911s are heavy, so when they jam, you can use them as a club. try that with a glock. Wink

never buy a used 1911, unless its from somebody you trust or if you know how to tinker with them. chances are you are buying somebodies else's problem. and the cheap ones are just junk. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/19/2010 at 09:16
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The tortise said to the hare, "I love to see flags waving in the wind". The Hare said the flag doesn't move its the air around the flag thats moving". A snail standing next to them said, "Nothing is moving here except your mind".
biggest advantage of the 1911 is its downfall. The vast array of parts available. In most cases they can be interchanged without problems, but when things go wrong--- This availability  makes any attempt at monopolizing their ownership or usage useless. Since the demise of the original colts, many makers such as Kimber and S&W etc. have brought out guns that are alot better than the orginals, most needing no work and reliable as any glock out of the box. The second biggest advantage of the 1911 is the single action trigger pull, that allows 25 yd head shots, or Azone hits at 50 yds. --- by a trained shooter. Thats why they selected the 1911. If the gun doesn't fit you hand the biggest chance, is because you are holding the gun wrong. Try-- thumb over safety, left under trigger with thumb resting on the frame, push with right hand pull with left hand rotate left elbow in, right elbow bent, target, front site,right wrist and right elbow in line with each other. The classic Weaver works for most people-- it takes alot of practice to use a good turret stance, and most people don't have the upper body strength. Take a bunch of handguns, an IPSC target, a Pact timer and an untrained shooter, and have them try all the guns using the the same simple exercise of presentation (without using a holster) at 7 yds with a double tap. Glock type guns will win every time. The high thumb positon of the 1911 must be mastered, but once mastered is faster from the holster. My glock times run about 110% of 1911 with a variety of stage setups. In your selection of --- consider other factors, for everyday usefullness. Do you like leaving your 1911 on the truck set in condition 3?, Are you willing to learn to use a 3 lb trigger? Are you willing learn the hold back the trigger until the glock is cocked necessary to make the glock even competitive with the 1911?  many question here besides the difference in models of the 1911.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/19/2010 at 12:27
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Originally posted by Dale Clifford Dale Clifford wrote:

The tortise said to the hare, "I love to see flags waving in the wind". The Hare said the flag doesn't move its the air around the flag thats moving". A snail standing next to them said, "Nothing is moving here except your mind".
biggest advantage of the 1911 is its downfall. The vast array of parts available. In most cases they can be interchanged without problems, but when things go wrong--- This availability  makes any attempt at monopolizing their ownership or usage useless. Since the demise of the original colts, many makers such as Kimber and S&W etc. have brought out guns that are alot better than the orginals, most needing no work and reliable as any glock out of the box. The second biggest advantage of the 1911 is the single action trigger pull, that allows 25 yd head shots, or Azone hits at 50 yds. --- by a trained shooter. Thats why they selected the 1911. If the gun doesn't fit you hand the biggest chance, is because you are holding the gun wrong. Try-- thumb over safety, left under trigger with thumb resting on the frame, push with right hand pull with left hand rotate left elbow in, right elbow bent, target, front site,right wrist and right elbow in line with each other. The classic Weaver works for most people-- it takes alot of practice to use a good turret stance, and most people don't have the upper body strength. Take a bunch of handguns, an IPSC target, a Pact timer and an untrained shooter, and have them try all the guns using the the same simple exercise of presentation (without using a holster) at 7 yds with a double tap. Glock type guns will win every time. The high thumb positon of the 1911 must be mastered, but once mastered is faster from the holster. My glock times run about 110% of 1911 with a variety of stage setups. In your selection of --- consider other factors, for everyday usefullness. Do you like leaving your 1911 on the truck set in condition 3?, Are you willing to learn to use a 3 lb trigger? Are you willing learn the hold back the trigger until the glock is cocked necessary to make the glock even competitive with the 1911?  many question here besides the difference in models of the 1911.

yes im prepared  for all that stuff, glocks are to thick in the grip to fit my hand comfortably.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/19/2010 at 12:30
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Originally posted by tahqua tahqua wrote:

The only 1911 I have left is a Colt that has been polished and ramped. It eats everything. I am with Jeff on the gun.
As far as Glocks go, I have a 20 and a 19. I carry both 3/4 of the time (because I have a HK USP .45). The 9mm in the city and the 10mm up at "my place". They just plain work all of the time. As for grip angle, it took me a little while to adjust, but they lie somewhere between a 1911 and most of Colt and S&W revolvers I have with old style grips. They can point high.
You cannot go wrong with a quality 1911. The safety is in the right spot. They are relatively flat for concealed carry and they come in one of the best auto cartridges of all time.
That being said, I'll take my Glocks or USP any day of the week.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/19/2010 at 13:35
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If your biggest draw toward a 1911 is the ergonomics, I highly recommend you consider HK's new guns.  I have an 45HK and a P30 and like them both allot, very similar grip geometry but with more bulk.  I like 1911s because they index perfectly for me; however, I have big paws, so I favor the high cap guns more than the single stacks.  I bought an HK45 and it is all but perfect in ergonomics for me (I like the function of the 1911 better, but can make do.)

As said, a 1911 is infinitely tweakable, for better or for worse.  If it is the ergonomics you like, avoid the 1911 and look to similar grip angles.  Most people getting into 1911s tell me the "hammer back on a live round"-carry makes them nervous.  If that is you, DO NOT buy a 1911!  It is, first and foremost, a combat handgun.  If it is something you will spend time mastering, it's hard to beat a 1911; if it is needed for ease-of-use or to be called upon only in emergency, look elsewhere.

And, as said before, some can be picky about ammo, magazines, limp wrists, recoil springs, barrel lockup, grip safety fit and function, feed ramps, throat contour, bushing fit, slide-to-frame play, magazine catch, sear geometry and finish, etc,etc,etc.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/19/2010 at 16:28
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i just dont know if i can afford an expensive pistol, im not sure i will have $1k+ to spend, probably more like $700-$850. i wont be carrying this gun around, i gotta take the class and get the paper work done first. mostly it will be used for target shooting/plinking. i may take it in the field during deer season.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/19/2010 at 16:35
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1911's = AR-15's of handguns.
Wink
 
RC's commententary is spot on, IMO. Excellent
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/19/2010 at 18:47
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Check out the legacy Citadels for about 600 --- an outstanding value.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/02/2011 at 21:27
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I couldn't help it. Spent the money, and never looked back.
Les Baer TRS - $1699
shipping - $75
FFL papers - $25
VZ gatorback grips - $75

It's a fine piece of machinery, and is capable of a more than I can do with it...Yet
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/05/2011 at 00:10
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get a series 70, everything else being equal the 80s are a pain in the butt to put together just to have unnecessary extra parts in your gun so anti gun politicians can say they did something to make the world safer.

Do NOT waste your money on a Kimber  you will spend too much money for a gun that probably will not work without re-gunsmithing it.

Price wise, look for a Para or a Taurus, up from there is Springfield.  I am also unhappy with the Canadian built Colt and the fact that they tend to finish their guns with porous blueing.

A hi rise beaver-tail is a good option, ambidextrous safety and target sights are pretty much a waste of money for me, the good old right thumb does just fine by itself and the only sight necessary for a tuned 1911 in the hands of someone who has practiced and practiced.

As for glock....   Anyone out there put 500,000 rounds through one with no other repair than replacing the recoil springs every 10,000 or so?  No?  Lots of 1911s have......


Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/05/2011 at 00:17
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Another nice option is the extended magazine well, and oh yea Springfield, Para and Taurus all 3 have several models  in SS (Really good option) in the $500 to $700 range.

Don't buy a used one unless you know someone who can tell you whether it is worth it and stay far far far away from the ones that are built in Pacific Rim countries like Phillipines, most expensive paperweight you ever bought before it is even good and broke in.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/07/2011 at 18:09
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Originally posted by cvedrick cvedrick wrote:

Do NOT waste your money on a Kimber  you will spend too much money for a gun that probably will not work without re-gunsmithing it.

 
Well, thats not been my experience with a Kimber. My Tactical Custom II worked perfectly from start to finish.
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/10/2011 at 12:22
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I own three 1911's each without the block, a Kimber Series 1, Colt Series 70 and a full house custom  Caspian Series 70 built by John Harrison http://www.harrisoncustom.com/ They are all heavy but sometimes in the winter I do carry the Harrison custom gun but mostly I carry one of my J-Frame's or a Glock 23.
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