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1-4X scope and rings for 1895G w XS leverscout

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/11/2009 at 10:12
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Optics GrassHopper
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Hi Folks,
First of all, thanks to everybody who has already posted answers on here that I was able to search through and find. It helped eliminate my list of questions down from a bunch to a couple. Before getting to the questions let me provide the info on the rifle.
 
I have a Marlin guide gun in .45-70. It has XS ghost ring sights and the old style short XS lever scout mount (not the the lever rail). I was originally going to go the scout scope route but then thought about getting a scope I could possibly use on some of my other rifles (like an AR15 carbine with removable carry handle).  Price is a major concern.  Anyway, this is the short list on my research (greatly assisted by searching this forum)
 
Weaver 1-3x20 classic v
Millet DMS 1-4x24
Bushnell 1-4x24 Trophy
 
The weaver is very much in last place right now  so it is really a toss up between the other two.  Before getting into which would be better 
1.  Would I even be able to mount them far enough back on the lever scout mount to even be able to use them?
2. Would the SWFA SS -Tac rings be an appropriate ring choice?
3. Will the ghost ring get in the way of uing the scope?
 
On the scopes
1. Reticle- Is there any clear advantage between the two reticles in terms of all purpose use? It seems like the prac-tactical donut of death would be the better close range 1X reticle but the Bushnell does offer the illuminated dot. It seems like the crosshairs would be better at longer range but I doubt I have the need, the ability, nor the cartridge to be responsibly taking shots beyond ~250 at the extreme.
 
2. Ruggedness. I realize that these are not $800 optics and won't be as tough as $800 optics but does either one have an advantage as far as being rugged goes? I cannot afford to shoot .45-70 anywhere near enough for the optic to be exposed to maybe 20-40 rounds of Hornady 325 gr or stock 405 gr a year and very occasional hunting. Hell, if I could afford to shoot as much .45-70 as I would like I wouldn't be worrying about the cost of the scope.
 
3. Flexibility- The most likely scenario is that the scope might get switched from the 1895G to an AR carbine with the carry handle removed. Considering that the specs for size, wieght, and eye relief are pretty close to identical the only obvious advantage I see is that the DMS is more prac-tactical so it may look more at home on the AR.
 
4. Price-Clear advantage to Bushnell. I can get scope and mounts for what the DMS costs. But does the DMS costing 38% more than the Bushnell represent a 38% increase in quality or does it reflect the 38% higher cool factor of the DMS?
 
Anyway, thanks for wading through this post and I really appreciate any help or advice.
 
 
 
 
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/11/2009 at 10:14
pyro6999 View Drop Down
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OT TITAN

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what about this one?

Nikon Monarch African Riflescopes

Nikon 1-4x20 Monarch African Riflescope
  $279.95 < name="ctl00$wpm$ShowProduct$ctl08$OurPrice$VS" id="ctl00_wpm_ShowProduct_ctl08_OurPrice_VS" value="y3q5RgatEEVPR5zF+Xph1yZCDA9KEyCLSppusoxnOauJ159lpWxba+rWS+rKCBE+" ="">

Nikon 1-4x20 Monarch African Riflescope

Stock # - NIK8446
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Tyler Linscomb
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Specifications
Weight (oz): 12.16


German #4

Length (in):10.35
Eye Relief (in):4.1 - 4
Field of View @ 100 yards (ft):92.9 - 23.1
Exit Pupil (mm):4 (at 4x)
MOA:1/4
Parallax Setting (yds):100


Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/11/2009 at 10:20
supertool73 View Drop Down
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Superstool

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With that ghost ring you would have to put the scope very high to get over it so you could use it which would kill your cheek weld.  I thought about putting that mount on my 45-70 as well but did not for that reason.  If you do not plan on using the iron sights and don't want a scout setup why not just take it off and add some regular rings like Talley one piece.  Those are what I went with and they work great.  If you want to keep that mount then a scout setup is probably your best bet.

I broke two scopes on my 45-70.  A Meopta and a Bushnell that is a more expensive model than that Trophy.  I always shoot hot loads, so it is very hard on scopes.  Millets do not have a very good rep any more.  (if they ever did)  They have been having durability problems for some time.  I would not even consider putting one of those on a hard kicking 45-70. 

In order to move it from gun to gun you would need some sort of riser on your AR to get the right height.  If you mount it in low rings on the 45-70 it will be to low for an AR.  In all reality moving a scope back and forth from gun to gun is a terrible idea.  All the money you would waste on ammo and the time you waste checking zeros and readjusting everytime you could pay for a new scope for the other rifle. 


Edited by supertool73 - December/11/2009 at 10:21
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/11/2009 at 10:22
Rule.303 View Drop Down
Optics GrassHopper
Optics GrassHopper


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Hi,
Thanks for the quick response but $279 is pushing the outside envelope of what I can spend on socpe and mount. I will keep this in mind though. The eye relief increase from 3.5 to 4 might certainly help with getting it to fit on the XS mount.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/11/2009 at 10:25
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Optics GrassHopper
Optics GrassHopper


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Hi Supertool,
Thanks for the feedback. This is exactly the kind of info I am looking for. I will check out the Talley one piece mount.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/11/2009 at 10:26
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Optics GrassHopper
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Supertol. What scope did you end up going with?

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/11/2009 at 10:32
supertool73 View Drop Down
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Superstool

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I put a fixed 4x Leupold FX2.  Since I broke two variables I figured a fixed might be a good way to go.  Nice thing about a lower power scope on a 45-70 is it helps you to keep the gun in its proper range.  I had a bushnell 4200 3-9x on it which worked great, but I found my self wanting to shoot it much farther than I really should be shooting that round.  But an low powered variable would offer the same in that regard.  

Another one that is a little cheaper than the Leupold in 4x is the Sightron S2. http://swfa.com/Sightron-4x32-SII-Riflescope-P9181.aspx

I ran a 1.25-5x Sightron big sky on it for a while and it did just fine.  Now it is on my .357 lever gun.  So I would assume the S2 would be a nice durable scope as well, especially since it is a fixed power.  


Edited by supertool73 - December/11/2009 at 10:33
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/11/2009 at 10:44
lucytuma View Drop Down
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I have the weaver V3 mounted on my 444 marlin and couldn't be more satisfied.  I also think the VXII 1-4 leo would be a good fit.

Edited by lucytuma - December/11/2009 at 10:45
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/11/2009 at 10:53
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Optics GrassHopper
Optics GrassHopper


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lucytuma,
thanks for the feedback. how do you have the weaver set up? What rings, etc.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/11/2009 at 10:58
lucytuma View Drop Down
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Just using standard Leupold rings and bases, no ghost sight, but with 1x on the low end I really don't see the need for iron sights.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/11/2009 at 20:02
koshkin View Drop Down
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Of the three scopes you have listed, for your application, I would put the Weaver V3 in the first place with the other two barely in the running.

V3 is small, light and rugged.  It will not upset the balance of the rifle and you can mount it pretty low (levergun stocks are not designed with scopes in mind).

ANother good scope for this application is a fixed magnification Leupold FX-2 2.5x20.

ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/11/2009 at 22:55
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Optics GrassHopper
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I have to agree with koshkin the V- 3 is a pretty tuff scope with better optics than the cost soggests i have one on a ligt 35 Whelen  that ate a Vari-X II 1x4x20 and another on my Rem pump in 35 Rem.  With them mounted low you will never miss the iron sights unless your hunting in a rain storm or blizzard.  use a Weaver one piece base and lever-lock rings and you can carry a NECG peep sight in your pocket if the weather turns too bad for a scope.

The Monarch is a nice scope, I'm useing a Monarch 1x4x20 UCC on one of my coyote guns.
 
The Leupold VX-II 1x4x20 is nice, I'm running one of those also. Plus a few older Weaver K-1.5's, Bushnell 4200 1.25x4x24 ill.dot(heavy scope like the DMS.
 
Leupold makes the VX-I in a 1x4x20 for ML and SHTG which should be pretty stout.
 
AWS
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/12/2009 at 04:05
koshkin View Drop Down
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This is indeed one of the few applications where "1" vs 30mm" makes a difference and, in my opinion, 1" tube scopes have an advantage.  For whatever reason, most low range variable scopes out there with 30mm tubes are quite bulky and heavy.  By comparison, the 1" tubes ones are very trim and light.

Here are the specs for a few long range variables of 1" and 30m tube diameters:

Weaver V3 1-3x20Nikon African 
1-4x20
Leupold VX-II 
1-4x20
Millett 
DMS-1 
1-4x24
Bushnell Trophy 
1-4x24
Hawke Endurance 1.25-4.5x24
Length, in9.110.359.211.812.711.8
Weight, oz8.512.1691816.215.5
Main Tube Diameter1"1"1"30mm30mm30mm
Eye Relief, in3.1 (longer in practice)44.3 - 3.83.53.53.5
FOV, ft@1000yards87 - 30.8

www.opticsthoughts.com

Those who are merciful to the cruel, are cruel to the merciful. Talmud
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/12/2009 at 15:27
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Optics GrassHopper
Optics GrassHopper


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Thank all of you very, very much for the input and suggestions and in particular thanks to Koshkin for going to the trouble to post that table. You folks saved me some money and hassle, without a doubt.

It looks like it will probably be the weaver but man I sure hate to pull the ghost ring off of the 1895 but I guess it is what it is.

Ya'all have happy holidays and thanks again for the help.
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