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10x42 MRAD scope delivery?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/03/2012 at 19:09
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So I see a few of the scopes are listed as "Coming soon, accepting pre orders"
Anyone know when they are getting in? I have been watching and have heard as soon as early March and now simply "this summer."  Is something fishy going on? Or maybe  just radiation contamination from the Fukushima plant? I'm switching all my thinking over to MRAD math and I really don't want to spend ANY MORE time with moa turrets and so I can't go shooting until the new scopes get in... I'm having to spend my time using Shooter Ready Long Range Shooting Simulation III... at least I saved up enough in ammo to buy the new scope!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/04/2012 at 13:33
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What's "fishy" about the fact that its taking longer to get this new line up and running than they first anticipated?  
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/04/2012 at 15:23
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sjcasas
We were diligently working toward having the SS ready for Spring, since then the demand for the SS has grown and now were are working toward this Summer(2012).
I assure you, there is nothing "fishy" about we operate.
The thing about MOA and MIL, is they are both angular adjustments and not linear measurements.

MOA (minute of angle) is an angular measurement and so is (MIL) miliradian.  It is a coincidence that when MOA is converted into a linear measurement that it subtends 1.047 inches at 100 yards.  That is so close to 1” that most people consider it to be 1” at 100 yards.  So a scope with .25 MOA adjustments translates to each click moving the reticle .25 of an inch at 100 yards.

It is a coincidence that 1/10 of a mil is 1 centimeter at 100 meters so most people go with metrics linear measurements for mil scopes.  MOA and MIL are not standard and metric measurements they are simple angular measurements, many people think mil is metric but it is not.

 

If you can make your brain stop having to apply a linear measurement to your angular adjustments it is quite a bit easier to use a mil scope.  You do this by using the reticle as a ruler to adjust for how much you missed the target.  Say you are shooting 864 yards and you miss low, if you can see how much you missed then you put the reticle on where you were aiming and count how many mils it is to where your shot actually went.  If it was 2.5 mils, then you just turn your elevation 2.5 mils in the direction you missed.  It does not matter how far or how close you are shooting because it is an angular measurement.  Mix matched scopes will soon be a thing of the past as it makes no sense to combine the two in one scope.  All scopes with mil based reticles should have mil based clicks, I think in five years mil scopes with moa adjustments will be obsolete.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/04/2012 at 16:03
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Originally posted by Skylar McMahon Skylar McMahon wrote:

sjcasas
We were diligently working toward having the SS ready for Spring, since then the demand for the SS has grown and now were are working toward this Summer(2012).
I assure you, there is nothing "fishy" about we operate.
The thing about MOA and MIL, is they are both angular adjustments and not linear measurements.

MOA (minute of angle) is an angular measurement and so is (MIL) miliradian.  It is a coincidence that when MOA is converted into a linear measurement that it subtends 1.047 inches at 100 yards.  That is so close to 1” that most people consider it to be 1” at 100 yards.  So a scope with .25 MOA adjustments translates to each click moving the reticle .25 of an inch at 100 yards.

It is a coincidence that 1/10 of a mil is 1 centimeter at 100 meters so most people go with metrics linear measurements for mil scopes.  MOA and MIL are not standard and metric measurements they are simple angular measurements, many people think mil is metric but it is not.

 

If you can make your brain stop having to apply a linear measurement to your angular adjustments it is quite a bit easier to use a mil scope.  You do this by using the reticle as a ruler to adjust for how much you missed the target.  Say you are shooting 864 yards and you miss low, if you can see how much you missed then you put the reticle on where you were aiming and count how many mils it is to where your shot actually went.  If it was 2.5 mils, then you just turn your elevation 2.5 mils in the direction you missed.  It does not matter how far or how close you are shooting because it is an angular measurement.  Mix matched scopes will soon be a thing of the past as it makes no sense to combine the two in one scope.  All scopes with mil based reticles should have mil based clicks, I think in five years mil scopes with moa adjustments will be obsolete.


Good post Skylar.  Both MOA and mrad are angular measurements and thinking about one or the other should not be very different from each other.

One point where I do disagree with you though is the whole "coincidence" statement.  The fact that 1 MOA is close to 1 inch at a 100 yards is indeed a coincidence.  However, the fact that 0.1 mrad is 1cm at 100 meters is most certainly not a coincidence.  That is most certainly intended that way by design and comes out of the very definition of the angular measure of a radian and of the method behind the metric system.  That is the beauty of the metric system: you can start with very few basic unitless measures and scale everything from there.

1 radian is simply an angle where the subtended arc is equal to the radius.  1mrad is 0.001 of a radian, so 1mrad is an angle where the subtended arc is one thousandth of the radius, i.e. if an object at a certain distance from you subtends exactly 1 mrad, then the size of that object in linear units is almost exactly one thousandth of a distance between you and that object.  What linear units you happen to use makes no difference.  It will work with any of them.

It is simplest to use with metric linear units because of the base10 scaling, of course.

With moderately retarded measurement systems we use for traditional reasons (like inches/feet/yards for linear units and degrees for angular units), translation between angular and linear measurements is a lot more involved.

Hence, between MOA and mrad, for as long as all you need to do is trajectory compensation, it does not matter what you use.  However, once rangefinding is thrown into the mix, mrads are usually a simpler and more precise way to go.

ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/04/2012 at 16:57
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I wasn't trying to imply something fishy... as in underhanded or less-than-honourable. Just a joke, really. It's just that, usually, when orders are placed by a company, a fulfillment date is given and it ought to happen within a few days/weeks of that date. I guess SWFA was told sometime in March, and now they are being told sometime after June. That's at least three months difference. I imagine the SWFA peeps are on the phone yelling at the manufacturer over this. Or maybe the scopes were delivered and were not up to standards and sent back. Or the Japanese workers started growing tumors on their eyeballs from radiation... etc... Just sayin' it would be nice to know. But I'm patient. No worries.

I understand all that about MOA and MRAD. I am NOT about to switch to the metric system, though, and I understand that it makes the math easier.... not gonna do it... too late for me. I can visually estimate fractions of an inch, inches, feet, yards, even miles with incredible accuracy, all things considered, and I am comfortable with my ability. If I switch to metrics all that goes out the window. Or at least my comfort does. And so, I will use Mil dots, .1 Mil clicks and YARD ranging, and fraction of YARD target sizes. And that is why I want to wait for the new scope.

I agree that the Imperial Measurement System is retarded... from a 21st century point of view. We should have changed over in the seventies... like we were supposed to. It's too late for me now...
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/04/2012 at 17:42
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Originally posted by sjcasas sjcasas wrote:

I wasn't trying to imply something fishy... as in underhanded or less-than-honourable. Just a joke, really. It's just that, usually, when orders are placed by a company, a fulfillment date is given and it ought to happen within a few days/weeks of that date. I guess SWFA was told sometime in March, and now they are being told sometime after June. That's at least three months difference. I imagine the SWFA peeps are on the phone yelling at the manufacturer over this. Or maybe the scopes were delivered and were not up to standards and sent back. Or the Japanese workers started growing tumors on their eyeballs from radiation... etc... Just sayin' it would be nice to know. But I'm patient. No worries.

I understand all that about MOA and MRAD. I am NOT about to switch to the metric system, though, and I understand that it makes the math easier.... not gonna do it... too late for me. I can visually estimate fractions of an inch, inches, feet, yards, even miles with incredible accuracy, all things considered, and I am comfortable with my ability. If I switch to metrics all that goes out the window. Or at least my comfort does. And so, I will use Mil dots, .1 Mil clicks and YARD ranging, and fraction of YARD target sizes. And that is why I want to wait for the new scope.

I agree that the Imperial Measurement System is retarded... from a 21st century point of view. We should have changed over in the seventies... like we were supposed to. It's too late for me now...

A little patience goes a long way.
When dealing with an OEM manufacturer there is always a chance of something going wrong and since these items are made in batches, it is not like you can make a properly corrected new batch of scopes in just a few days.  It takes a little time.

ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/04/2012 at 18:32
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I'd rather wait a bit longer than have a faulty product. +1 swfa
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/07/2012 at 07:45
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Another unknown anytime your dealing with this stuff is CUSTOMS!  they can hold stuff for as long as they want really and that timeline is never known.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/07/2012 at 14:43
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Originally posted by SVT_Tactical SVT_Tactical wrote:

Another unknown anytime your dealing with this stuff is CUSTOMS!  they can hold stuff for as long as they want really and that timeline is never known.
 
Yep ... just like form 4's on cans ... get one inspector your done in 4 months ... get a lazy turd one and you wait 10 ....
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/07/2012 at 22:45
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Originally posted by SVT_Tactical SVT_Tactical wrote:

Another unknown anytime your dealing with this stuff is CUSTOMS!  they can hold stuff for as long as they want really and that timeline is never known.
Are you saying Customs are holding up these deliveries?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/08/2012 at 07:25
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Originally posted by tahqua tahqua wrote:

Originally posted by SVT_Tactical SVT_Tactical wrote:

Another unknown anytime your dealing with this stuff is CUSTOMS!  they can hold stuff for as long as they want really and that timeline is never known.
Are you saying Customs are holding up these deliveries?
No just saying that they can delay a shipment even longer than one can expect.  FOR EXAMPLE ONLY - lets say scopes were shipped from overseas to SWFA, then customs got them to check them like they do anything but given the nature of them (riflescopes) they may be a bit long for more through checks.   I don't mess with customs but I remember when the 5-20s were coming in that it took customs a while to process them.  I don't know where these new scopes are coming from but if from Japan I imagine they are checking for radiation pretty tightly as well when packages come in from there.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/08/2012 at 12:54
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Originally posted by SVT_Tactical SVT_Tactical wrote:

I don't know where these new scopes are coming from but if from Japan I imagine they are checking for radiation pretty tightly as well when packages come in from there.


Really? Why?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/10/2012 at 13:57
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Originally posted by koshkin koshkin wrote:

Good post Skylar.  Both MOA and mrad are angular measurements and thinking about one or the other should not be very different from each other.

One point where I do disagree with you though is the whole "coincidence" statement.  The fact that 1 MOA is close to 1 inch at a 100 yards is indeed a coincidence.  However, the fact that 0.1 mrad is 1cm at 100 meters is most certainly not a coincidence.  That is most certainly intended that way by design and comes out of the very definition of the angular measure of a radian and of the method behind the metric system.  That is the beauty of the metric system: you can start with very few basic unitless measures and scale everything from there.

1 radian is simply an angle where the subtended arc is equal to the radius.  1mrad is 0.001 of a radian, so 1mrad is an angle where the subtended arc is one thousandth of the radius, i.e. if an object at a certain distance from you subtends exactly 1 mrad, then the size of that object in linear units is almost exactly one thousandth of a distance between you and that object.  What linear units you happen to use makes no difference.  It will work with any of them.

It is simplest to use with metric linear units because of the base10 scaling, of course.

With moderately retarded measurement systems we use for traditional reasons (like inches/feet/yards for linear units and degrees for angular units), translation between angular and linear measurements is a lot more involved.

Hence, between MOA and mrad, for as long as all you need to do is trajectory compensation, it does not matter what you use.  However, once rangefinding is thrown into the mix, mrads are usually a simpler and more precise way to go.

ILya
 
Ilya
 
Thank you, I was trying to make things simple to understand, but you point is much more effective. Thanks for you input and helping correct my post.  Excellent
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/25/2012 at 11:24
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so skylar, i have one of these things pre ordered, can you say anything more specific about whats holding up these scopes?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/25/2012 at 11:30
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Originally posted by dude dude wrote:

so skylar, i have one of these things pre ordered, can you say anything more specific about whats holding up these scopes?
 
I wish I could. At this time I do not have a definitive time frame.
 
Welcome to the OT.


Edited by Skylar McMahon - May/25/2012 at 16:47
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/25/2012 at 16:47
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Welcome to the OT Dude!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/26/2012 at 07:03
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thanks
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/02/2012 at 20:44
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Anyone get an update? It's been a month since the original post...
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/07/2012 at 23:18
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How's this for an update? I just got an email with a tracking number! Woo-HOO!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/08/2012 at 08:26
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All the new mil-quads have arrived and we are shipping them as fast as possible.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/08/2012 at 08:35
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I want to be the first shooter in North Carolina to have the 12x Mil Mil!!  Devil
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/08/2012 at 08:40
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Originally posted by cheaptrick cheaptrick wrote:

I want to be the first shooter in North Carolina to have the 12x Mil Mil!!  Devil
 
Selfish???? Shocked
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/08/2012 at 08:46
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Originally posted by Skylar McMahon Skylar McMahon wrote:

Originally posted by cheaptrick cheaptrick wrote:

I want to be the first shooter in North Carolina to have the 12x Mil Mil!!  Devil
 
Selfish???? Shocked


Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/08/2012 at 08:48
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CT.... I've had a 12x for about two weeks now..Big Grin
 
 
 
 
KIDDING  but made you go WTF!!!!!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/08/2012 at 08:51
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