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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/01/2007 at 23:03
Argie View Drop Down
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Hi everyone.

I'd appreciate your advise in choosing a bino for mountain deer hunting. What i'm looking for is a)strength, bino should stay fit in spite of blows, water etc. 2) ability to see in low light, as I also do some moonlight boar hunting (legal here) 3) not very heavy. My options so far are 1) Minox BV 10x42 $290, 2)Steiner Predator Pro 10x40 $300, 3)Pentax DCF sp 10x43 $600. 

I'm aware the Pentax is 100% more expensive ┐in this particular case, is it worth the difference?

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/02/2007 at 05:49
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Argie: I have no experience with the other two but the Pentax DCF SP is a very fine binocular.  The quote "you get what you pay for" definitly applies in optics. That is not to say that you can't find deals out there but generally that applies.  The Pentax DCF SP series is about as nice as you can get under the $800 range and even then they are close to even more expensive binoculars not much of a difference. If it was me, I would lean towards the DCF or I would look very hard for a deal such as here on this web sites store and go to the sample list and look at Kahles.

 

Good luck

AC

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/02/2007 at 07:29
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Argie -

 

If you really need a 10x binocular for hunting, you should plan on spending $$$ closer to $600.  Most 10x roof prism binoculars in the sub $400-$500 range are no good.  It is much more difficult to manufacture a 10x than an 8x with the same optical quality.  On your list, Pentax would be the best choice.  I would also recommend the samplelist...you could probably get a 10x binocular that SWFA sells for $900+ in the $600 range there.

 

ND2000

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/03/2007 at 19:36
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Those look OK, but Steiners tend to be dim.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/04/2007 at 16:16
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Argie,

Vortex Viper 10x42mm

http://www.fieldandstream.com/fieldstream/photogallery/
article/0,13355,1651827_31,00.html


Edited by Bird Watcher
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/05/2007 at 16:24
Argie View Drop Down
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Thanks for your answers. But unfortunately I'm restricted to a limited number of brands 'cause not all companies accept foreign credit cards and ship to a USA address. I'm trying to get the Pentax, otherwise I' m in doubt between the Nikon ATB 10x42 and the Steiner Predator Pro 10x40.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/22/2007 at 11:55
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Argie, I just chatted with Cabelas and they accept CC's from Argentina and ship there too!

Some binoc's I have recently discovered seem to be equal to the  

Swarovski's SCL Body with the EL Lenses at less than half the price!

I spent about an hour looking through every binoc's they had and to my amazement, these beat the anything close to their price range!

I did not compare with Zeiss, but wished I had.... but according to the salesman, these beat the Zeiss too both in brightness and clarity.. but I cannot confirm that myself as I  have posted a question about that myself.

In case your wondering, I also looked at their 12 X 50 version of the EO and the 10 X 42's beat both it both in brightness and field of view.

If you check out the reviews "the link under the customer ratings", people are ecstatic with them....

They have a "lifetime " warranty since they are through Cabelas's..... I'm challenged to find a better buy so far!


Edited by windstrings
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/22/2007 at 12:12
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Originally posted by Tero Tero wrote:

Those look OK, but Steiners tend to be dim.


I agree... I've had a pair of 8 X 30 military marine Steiners for about 10  years.

I've always loved them because they put to shame the cheap binoc's I've always looked through in the past, but recently as I was about to purchase thier 10 X 50 model of the marine version and I was amazed at how "dim" or dull they were compared to Leopold's and many others.

IN fact, I found no others in that price range that were as dimm.... almost like a faint smoke in the air compared to looking through the others.

I noticed you wanted them to be light too... .these are a little heavy for their size, but a very nice feel.


Edited by windstrings
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/22/2007 at 13:53
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I think the salesman from Cabelas is smoking crack. The Cabelas Euro is made for them by Meopta, equivalent to their Meostar's which are very good bino's. There is no affiliation with Cabelas, Swarovski or Zeiss in that bino.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/22/2007 at 14:07
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The Meopta do indeed look alot like the other when looking at the comparisons, but many look alike... just not exactly.



Edited by windstrings
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/22/2007 at 14:17
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Meopta is probably one of the largest Europeon OEM's so it is very possible that Swarovski gets "parts" from them, but that is a guess on my part. It is getting more difficult to find out just where optics manufactures are sourcing their parts from these days. I can asure you that Meopta is not getting lenses from Swarovski or Zeiss to manufacture the Euro for Cabelas. If you look at the Minnox HG series you would think that this is a German made binocular, however, it is assembled in Japan using German parts to keep costs down. Nothing wrong with that if I'm the consumer who reaps the cost savings benefit.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/22/2007 at 17:29
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Thanks everyone!

I finally got what I think is  a good price in Ebay (u$s 438 postage included) and got the Pentax DCF Sp 10x43. Although I'm no expert, they look crisp and clear and are a big step from the Steiner Mil&Mar. 8x30 I previously used. I'm waiting for the next hunt to try them in the field. 

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/23/2007 at 07:11
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Originally posted by Roy Finn Roy Finn wrote:

I think the salesman from Cabelas is smoking crack.

 

I love Cabelas (the company) -- they offer so much cool hunting gear -- but they either need to do a better job of training their employees in the products they sell, or tell them to shut the $#%& up when asked a question they don't know the answer to, because I've never heard so much BS in my life as I did during my last 2 visits to the gun and optics counters.  For example, during my last visit there, I "learned" that the Cabelas Euro binocular is fully the equal of the Swaro EL because, "it's a little known fact" that Swarovski owns Meopta, and Meopta makes all of Swaro's binos for them

At the gun counter, I learned that Marlin rimfire rifles are the most accurate rifles available because of their revolutionary "Micro-Groove" rifling!  The guy who made that brilliant statement actually had a potential customer talked out of buying several other higher end rimfires  -- including a Cooper  -- because they didn't have the MG rifling!  During the same visit, I heard another salesman tell a customer that the Leupold Rifleman scope was WAY better than the Nikon Monarch and Elite 4200!

 

I think I need to visit Cabelas more often, because I learn valuable new facts each time!

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/23/2007 at 07:13
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A Leupold Rifleman is not better then a Monarch or an Elite 4200????
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/23/2007 at 10:07
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I stopped asking questions at Cabelas awhile back. Their sales folks are very pleasentand go out of their way to help, however, it is that type of info that leaves alot to be desired. It does, however, provide folks like us with new mateial for when we get the humorous itch.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/23/2007 at 10:43
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Cabela Euro binoculars are made by Meopta.  No ties to Swarovski whatsoever.

Also, this forum is owned by SWFA, it is probably impolite to link their competitor's website from this forum.

ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/23/2007 at 11:03
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So right you are.... I fixed my links....

Not that it really matters, but on that competitors Forum, I found a few that balanced the  tables with links to SWFA...... It all settles in the wash.


Edited by windstrings
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/23/2007 at 11:05
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Originally posted by RifleDude RifleDude wrote:

Originally posted by Roy Finn Roy Finn wrote:

I think the salesman from Cabelas is smoking crack.

 

I love Cabelas (the company) -- they offer so much cool hunting gear -- but they either need to do a better job of training their employees in the products they sell, or tell them to shut the $#%& up when asked a question they don't know the answer to, because I've never heard so much BS in my life as I did during my last 2 visits to the gun and optics counters.  For example, during my last visit there, I "learned" that the Cabelas Euro binocular is fully the equal of the Swaro EL because, "it's a little known fact" that Swarovski owns Meopta, and Meopta makes all of Swaro's binos for them



I believe thats the same story I got at the Fort Worth Store..... humm.... that makes me think they either believe it because they are taught that from thier superiors, or its rumor.

Its hard to know whats the truth out there... its obvious the big companies aren't going to openly release their secrets as they too desire to get and manufacture their parts the cheapest way possible without compromising quality "hopefully".

Buy the "Kroger" brand... you may be getting Hunts?


Edited by windstrings
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/23/2007 at 15:49
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Originally posted by windstrings windstrings wrote:

Originally posted by RifleDude RifleDude wrote:

Originally posted by Roy Finn Roy Finn wrote:

I think the salesman from Cabelas is smoking crack.

 

I love Cabelas (the company) -- they offer so much cool hunting gear -- but they either need to do a better job of training their employees in the products they sell, or tell them to shut the $#%& up when asked a question they don't know the answer to, because I've never heard so much BS in my life as I did during my last 2 visits to the gun and optics counters.  For example, during my last visit there, I "learned" that the Cabelas Euro binocular is fully the equal of the Swaro EL because, "it's a little known fact" that Swarovski owns Meopta, and Meopta makes all of Swaro's binos for them



I believe thats the same story I got at the Fort Worth Store..... humm.... that makes me think they either believe it because they are taught that from thier superiors, or its rumor.

Its hard to know whats the truth out there... its obvious the big companies aren't going to openly release their secrets as they too desire to get and manufacture their parts the cheapest way possible without compromising quality "hopefully".

Buy the "Kroger" brand... you may be getting Hunts?

 

Yes, in fact I'm referring to the Ft. Worth store!

 

Ilya, I'm aware that Meopta makes the Euro binos for Cabelas, but I wasn't aware of the interesting factoid that Swaro owns Meopta and Meopta makes all of Swaro's binos for them!

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/24/2007 at 07:01
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Originally posted by RifleDude RifleDude wrote:

Originally posted by Roy Finn Roy Finn wrote:

I think the salesman from Cabelas is smoking crack.

 

Just try asking about and buying home appliances from Best Buy. You will learn the true definition of "uneducated arrogant disorganized idiotic don't know what they sell sales clerks".  They actuallly have a name for them there: Geek Squad.

 

 

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/26/2007 at 17:24
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For example, during my last visit there, I "learned" that the Cabelas Euro binocular is fully the equal of the Swaro EL because, "it's a little known fact" that Swarovski owns Meopta, and Meopta makes all of Swaro's binos for them


This industry is absolutely full of misinformation about optics. When the conversation progresses away from the $100-300 range of products and begins making its way to the $600-800 and/or European side of things, people lock up, don't want to look ignorant to the customer so they throw things out there and hope that the customer agrees and doesn't pry too much further.



What it all boils down to is what binocular do your eyes tell you provides the sharpest image, the most contrast, the most natural color rendition, and what feels the best in your hands? This message board, your buddies, and any optics dealer in the country can push you in any direction they please but in the end, it is going to be you stuck by yourself with this product, using it for hours on end out in the field. If you have a product you love using and feel comfortable with, then you will want to use it more often and will feel like you made the right decision.


Try as many different binoculars as you can and go with your gut.


 

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/27/2007 at 21:34
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I too learned the SLC's only have the swarobright coating on "one" side of the lense whereas the EL's have all sides.....

Humm... the literature says that the SLC is coated on "all" surfaces exposed to air......

Maybe there is a misunderstanding too.... there are two other types of coatings mentioned too... right off their page its mentioned:

All lenses are coated with Swarotop« and Swarodur« multi-layer coatings for maximum light transmission. Prisms are coated with Swarobright«.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/28/2007 at 00:23
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To clear up some stuff about Swaro's coatings.

Swarotop are anti-reflective coatings that are on every glass to air interface of both EL and SLCnew (except for one prism surface that has Swarobright on it which I will explain shortly).

Swarodur are coatings that are pretty tough and scratch resistant.  These are on two external lens surfaces.

Swarobright is a dielectric prism coating that designed to be maximally reflective.  It is on one of the prism surfaces where geometry does not allow utilization of total internal reflection.

ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/28/2007 at 20:57
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Any explanation you have I welcome..... I love understanding the nitty gritty of what makes things tick.... it almost brings more joy to the use of it.

Do I understand the Swarodur may stand for "durable".. for maximum durability, and if so, it must be a tad less ant-reflective than the swarobright surfaces, otherwise they would just just one for all.

If I'm surmising right... are the SLC's designed more for rough use with the prospect of accidental external lens contact with a foreign object, whereas the EL's are for maximum light transmission and possible more fragile by the nature of giving up durability for that maximum light transfer abilities?

I notice the twilight ratings are the same for both "21"... wouldn't that be a pretty good indication of final light transfer abilities?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/28/2007 at 21:08
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I suppose I was not clear enough.

SLCnew and EL have optics of equal quality.  The bodies are different.  ELs are lighter.

Swarobright is not an anti-reflective coating.  It is just the opposite it is a coating that maximizes reflection, not minimizes it.  Swarobright is only applied on one surface of the prism.  Some binoculars claim "silver-coated" or "aluminum-coated" prisms.  Most expensive binoculars instead of silver or aluminum use dielectric films (of materials like titanium dioxide, for example).  That is what Swarobright is: a highly reflective dielectric coating.

Swarodur is indeed a durable coating that is only needed on the outer surfaces of the binocular, where it is, in all likelihood, applied over the Swarotop coating.  It is used in both SLCnew and EL.

As for twilight rating, I suggest you do not pay any attention to that number.  It is one of the more useless metrics I can think of (there was a long thread discussing it; you can search for it).

ILya


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