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.1 Mrad precise enough for varminting?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/03/2011 at 16:44
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I'm really wanting to buy one of the new Super Snipers, but I've been wondering if the .1 Mrad is going to work as well for shooting groundhogs at long range compared to 1/4 MOA?  I've been waiting since 2004-2005 for this new Super Sniper and I don't want to miss out on the Hide deal now that it's finally available.  I'm using a 6mm with 105 A-max's and most of my shots are less than 600 but some get out there a ways.  I love the idea of mil-mil adjustments but have no experience with them and ~.4 MOA adjustments add up and seem like they might be too much for shooting small targets out past 500.  Less room for error? Would something like a PST with MOA-MOA adjustments be better for varminting or will .1 Mrad be fine?
 
Thanks!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/03/2011 at 17:18
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The difference in adjustment (1/4MOA and 0.1mrad) is less than an inch per click at 600 yards.

I prefer mil/mil and have no problem with small targets at range.  If the adjustment on the scope is 1/4MOA but the gun is a 0.75MOA gun, I don't see how the adjustment size will be a problem.

The 5-20 is a smoke'in deal, I;d grab one.  Especially since yu've been waiting since 2005.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/03/2011 at 17:30
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1/10 mil is actually .34 MOA so not quite as bad as you thought. They're coarser than 1/4 MOA by about a third. At 600 yards 1/4 MOA covers 1.57" and 1/10 mil covers 2.16" so .58" difference. At a distance like that, the difference shouldn't matter. From what I'm hearing (and it's one more reason why I have an SS 5-20 ordered) is that the clicks are "better than a Hensoldt" and while Vortex has a very decent offering in the PST for the price, I haven't seen anybody say that...even after they fixed the turrets and (much to their credit) held up mass distribution of the PST line until the problem was solved.

The glass and eye relief as well as rock-solid construction make the SS 5-20 hard to beat. The reticle shouldn't be to thick for varminting either.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/03/2011 at 17:45
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These are the exact kind of replies I expected.  The clicks are "better than a Hendsoldt" comment also raised my eye brow as well as yours and I've read about the PST clicks not being anything special.  I know the difference in adjustment isn't a huge difference, but $1000 is a big chunk of change for me to spend on a new toy right now, so I guess I was just looking for some replies like this to help make me feel better about making the purchase lol.  I really doub't the Hide page gets 10,000 likes before the deadline, but I'm gonna wait and see because I could use the free rings if it does.  Mil-mil definately seems like a much simpler and faster system to use and I've been wanting a scope like that for quite some time.  Looks like I'll be throwing the SS16 thats on the 6mm now onto the .22-250:)

Thanks for the help guys!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/04/2011 at 00:31
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In worst case scenario with a 1/10 mil scope you are 1/6 moa off your aiming point.

Or you are off your aiming point with .2 " at hundred yards or 2" at thousend yard.

This might be a problem for a benchrest shooter, and for me not, cause I don't even own any benchrest gun and never will, so any adjustments finer than 1/10 mil is in my case completely unnecesarry.

 

Håkan

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/04/2011 at 02:15
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Originally posted by jonoMT jonoMT wrote:

1/10 mil is actually .34 MOA so not quite as bad as you thought. They're coarser than 1/4 MOA by about a third. At 600 yards 1/4 MOA covers 1.57" and 1/10 mil covers 2.16" so .58" difference. At a distance like that, the difference shouldn't matter. From what I'm hearing (and it's one more reason why I have an SS 5-20 ordered) is that the clicks are "better than a Hensoldt" and while Vortex has a very decent offering in the PST for the price, I haven't seen anybody say that...even after they fixed the turrets and (much to their credit) held up mass distribution of the PST line until the problem was solved.

The glass and eye relief as well as rock-solid construction make the SS 5-20 hard to beat. The reticle shouldn't be to thick for varminting either.

A couple of comments: while Hensoldt tracking is superb, the click feel, to me is not as good as in some other high end scopes.

Click feel on the new 5-20x50 Super Sniper, to me, is indeed better than the Hensoldt, but not better than double turn Premier or Steiner. 

ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/04/2011 at 16:37
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Originally posted by koshkin koshkin wrote:

Originally posted by jonoMT jonoMT wrote:

1/10 mil is actually .34 MOA so not quite as bad as you thought. They're coarser than 1/4 MOA by about a third. At 600 yards 1/4 MOA covers 1.57" and 1/10 mil covers 2.16" so .58" difference. At a distance like that, the difference shouldn't matter. From what I'm hearing (and it's one more reason why I have an SS 5-20 ordered) is that the clicks are "better than a Hensoldt" and while Vortex has a very decent offering in the PST for the price, I haven't seen anybody say that...even after they fixed the turrets and (much to their credit) held up mass distribution of the PST line until the problem was solved.

The glass and eye relief as well as rock-solid construction make the SS 5-20 hard to beat. The reticle shouldn't be to thick for varminting either.

A couple of comments: while Hensoldt tracking is superb, the click feel, to me is not as good as in some other high end scopes.

Click feel on the new 5-20x50 Super Sniper, to me, is indeed better than the Hensoldt, but not better than double turn Premier or Steiner. 

ILya

You obviously haven't had your hands on the right Hensoldt...
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/04/2011 at 17:32
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I can't compare to the new super sniper, as I havent seen it.
However the feel on my hensoldts are better than the feel on my PMll's.
Regardsless of that, I am very fond of the simplicity of the PMll due to the single turn feature.
 
Håkan
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/04/2011 at 20:26
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Originally posted by Kickboxer Kickboxer wrote:

Originally posted by koshkin koshkin wrote:

Originally posted by jonoMT jonoMT wrote:

1/10 mil is actually .34 MOA so not quite as bad as you thought. They're coarser than 1/4 MOA by about a third. At 600 yards 1/4 MOA covers 1.57" and 1/10 mil covers 2.16" so .58" difference. At a distance like that, the difference shouldn't matter. From what I'm hearing (and it's one more reason why I have an SS 5-20 ordered) is that the clicks are "better than a Hensoldt" and while Vortex has a very decent offering in the PST for the price, I haven't seen anybody say that...even after they fixed the turrets and (much to their credit) held up mass distribution of the PST line until the problem was solved.

The glass and eye relief as well as rock-solid construction make the SS 5-20 hard to beat. The reticle shouldn't be to thick for varminting either.

A couple of comments: while Hensoldt tracking is superb, the click feel, to me is not as good as in some other high end scopes.

Click feel on the new 5-20x50 Super Sniper, to me, is indeed better than the Hensoldt, but not better than double turn Premier or Steiner. 

ILya

You obviously haven't had your hands on the right Hensoldt...

Well, I have tested two Hensoldts and had my hands on another half dozen of them or so.  

The repeatability was superb and the feel was very good, but there are other scopes that in my opinion have better knob feel.

ILya


Edited by koshkin - June/05/2011 at 02:32
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/04/2011 at 23:46
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This is one for the books.

Hensoldts Clicks while seemingly positive and click click click, are not as nice as others.  Some go Ping, Ping, Ping, others go Pop, Pop, Pop...

Hensoldts are more or less a tic, tic, tic, tic.

I have had a Hensoldt or 4.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/05/2011 at 00:37
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Haven't touched the 5-20, yet.  But, I have had my hands on virtually every optic in use by DoD at one time or another.  It's kind of what I do... not as a hobby or a pass time...

The "click" feel and sound is different from line to line and many times from scope to scope.  Your "preferences" are your own, so you can qualify your statement with "to me" or "in my opinion" and that is fine.  You can say "I like the "clicks" on the XXXX better than those on Henoldt" and I won't have a problem with it... I'll personally question your acumen, but que sera, sera.

Better than Hensoldt???  Super...
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/05/2011 at 01:26
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"At 600 yards 1/4 MOA covers 1.57" and 1/10 mil covers 2.16" so .58" difference.
At a distance like that, the difference shouldn't matter."
Agreed.

If you are not content, or still unsure, then go to something like the newer SIII 8-32 with 1/8 MOA turrets.
I was spotting today using a 1/4 minute 8-32 SIII out to 1450 yards today (they were shooting a 6mm-6.5x47 Lapua and 7mm SAUM rifle) and I had no problems calling shots for them.
I am not 100 percent sure you can get the MOA Reticle and the 1/8MOA turrets, but I know they will be available for the dot reticle.



Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/06/2011 at 17:37
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I would state (again): 1/8MOA clicks on a 0.75MOA gun are - um - unnecessary - unless extreme long range is the mission.

My hensoldt clicks aren't my favorite (US Optics EREK gets that prize) but I have never been unsure as to how much dope I clicked in.  They are clear, crisp, and very positive: everything else is splitting hairs.

Al taht said, i ahve very high hopes for my SS5-20s.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/06/2011 at 21:21
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I cannot see any distance when finer clicks are needed.
At 1000 meters you are maximum off your aiming point by 2" and at 1500 meters 3".
Who shoots that good, and calculates the wind that precise that he can take advantage of finer than .1. Mrad?

Håkan
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