New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - 1/10 Mil clicks VS 1/4moa clicks
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Check GunBroker.com for SWFA's No Reserve and No Minimum bid firearm auctions.

1/10 Mil clicks VS 1/4moa clicks

 Post Reply Post Reply   Topic Search Topic Search  Topic Options Topic Options
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/11/2009 at 20:36
Urimaginaryfrnd View Drop Down
MODERATOR
MODERATOR
Avatar
Resident Redneck

Joined: June/20/2005
Location: Iowa
Status: Offline
Points: 13877
Regarding the new trend toward having  mil reticle with mil based clicks as opposed to a minute of angle reticle and 1/4 moa clicks. What do you like better and find easier to use.  Who has 1/10mil clicks on their scope and what do you like about Mil Mil scopes.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/11/2009 at 20:37
mike650 View Drop Down
Optics God
Optics God
Avatar

Joined: May/14/2006
Location: West of Rockies
Status: Online
Points: 12710
Get Your Popcorn Ready
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/11/2009 at 20:41
billyburl2 View Drop Down
Optics Master Extraordinaire
Optics Master Extraordinaire
Avatar

Joined: January/08/2009
Location: Cottonwood, AZ
Status: Offline
Points: 3873
Whistling
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/12/2009 at 09:00
Urimaginaryfrnd View Drop Down
MODERATOR
MODERATOR
Avatar
Resident Redneck

Joined: June/20/2005
Location: Iowa
Status: Offline
Points: 13877
Calculated Table .308  190SMK  2600Fps
Range Drop Drop Windage Windage Velocity Mach Energy Time Lead Lead
(yd) (mil) (MOA) (mil) (MOA) (ft/s) (none) (ft•lbs) (s) (mil) (MOA)
0 *** *** *** *** 2606.2 2.334 2865.1 0.000 *** ***
50 0.6 2.0 0.1 0.4 2513.7 2.251 2665.3 0.059 5.7 19.7
100 0.6 2.1 0.2 0.7 2423.1 2.170 2476.6 0.119 5.8 20.1
150 0.4 1.2 0.3 1.1 2334.3 2.091 2298.5 0.182 5.9 20.4
200 -0.0 -0.0 0.4 1.5 2247.4 2.013 2130.4 0.248 6.1 20.8
250 -0.4 -1.4 0.6 1.9 2162.2 1.937 1972.1 0.316 6.2 21.2
300 -0.8 -2.9 0.7 2.3 2078.9 1.862 1823.0 0.387 6.3 21.7
350 -1.3 -4.5 0.8 2.8 1997.5 1.789 1683.0 0.460 6.4 22.1
400 -1.8 -6.3 0.9 3.2 1918.0 1.718 1551.7 0.537 6.6 22.6
450 -2.4 -8.1 1.1 3.7 1840.6 1.649 1429.0 0.617 6.7 23.0
500 -2.9 -10.1 1.2 4.2 1765.3 1.581 1314.4 0.700 6.8 23.5
550 -3.6 -12.2 1.4 4.7 1692.3 1.516 1208.0 0.787 7.0 24.0
600 -4.2 -14.4 1.5 5.2 1621.7 1.453 1109.3 0.877 7.1 24.6
650 -4.9 -16.8 1.7 5.8 1553.8 1.392 1018.3 0.972 7.3 25.1
700 -5.6 -19.3 1.8 6.4 1488.6 1.333 934.8 1.071 7.5 25.7
750 -6.4 -22.0 2.0 7.0 1426.6 1.278 858.4 1.174 7.6 26.3
800 -7.2 -24.9 2.2 7.6 1367.7 1.225 789.1 1.281 7.8 26.9
850 -8.1 -28.0 2.4 8.2 1312.4 1.176 726.6 1.393 8.0 27.5
900 -9.1 -31.2 2.6 8.8 1261.0 1.129 670.7 1.510 8.2 28.2
950 -10.1 -34.7 2.8 9.5 1213.6 1.087 621.2
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/12/2009 at 09:01
Rancid Coolaid View Drop Down
Optics Jedi Master
Optics Jedi Master
Avatar

Joined: January/19/2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 7701
I learned on the old 10X Unertls, mil dot with MOA adjustments; it was fairly simple: range in mils, calculate drop in MOA, no problem.

In my opinion, the mil is easier to understand than the MOA, and having matching turrets and reticles makes shot adjustment a breeze, especially with FFP scopes.

I have a USO SN3 that is mil reticle and MOA turrets and it doesn't bother me in the least.  I also have a Premier with mil reticle and mil turrets and it too is easily manipulated.  The only problem I've run into is shooting one, then immediately the other, then switching back to the other, then the other, then the other... 

I have made the mistake of clicking in what would be an accurate MOA adjustment into the mil scope, only to remember after throwing the round way off the mark (Premiers are .1-mil adjustments, which are 0.36-inches per click.)

My advice: if you are learning, get mil/mil, it is simpler to understand and simpler to use.  If you are an "old dog", stick with what you know, but be consistent.

In time, I'll probably get rid of the USO and swap to a mil/mil scope for that gun.  I tend to move between my primary 2 long guns allot and I'll probably end up with a Premier on both for continuity.

With all that, throw in a mil dot master and the whole thing changes; the Master makes it easy and you don't need to do the math.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/12/2009 at 09:06
Rancid Coolaid View Drop Down
Optics Jedi Master
Optics Jedi Master
Avatar

Joined: January/19/2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 7701
Wes, the IOR large elevation turret and USO EREK make it really tough to get lost on the dial.

I've been lost on the dial a few times, usually only when coming back from a 900+ yard shot, and when it happens, it sucks.

Being able to hold over is of some value, but you either need a Christmas tree reticle that includes windage or you need to click in windage to stay on the vertical.  I prefer clicking in and logging the adjustment, but I know all too well that I ain't most people.


Edited by Rancid Coolaid - May/12/2009 at 12:08
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/12/2009 at 09:21
Urimaginaryfrnd View Drop Down
MODERATOR
MODERATOR
Avatar
Resident Redneck

Joined: June/20/2005
Location: Iowa
Status: Offline
Points: 13877
Ive always had Mil dot reticle wiht 1/4  or 1 moa clicks but I'm thinking about the 1/10 mil clicks which I believe come out to roughly 1/3moa per click which is certainly a fine enough adjustment.  With the new variable Super Sniper being  1/10 mil and some of the NF & USO and S&B  all aparently headed toward the  1/10 mil it makes it look like a better system.  It does eliminate the BS of now knowing if something is true MOA 1.047 in or shooters MOA 1.0 in  not that that would matter in the 200 yds or less that most of the boys shoot but at distance it makes a difference.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/12/2009 at 09:31
Dale Clifford View Drop Down
Optics Jedi Knight
Optics Jedi Knight


Joined: July/04/2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 5087
some sfp scopes are not set up for hold over correction at max. magnification, only the ranging part of set up. If your using a print out sheet such as yours, elevations adjustments are just as easily done in either format. My biggest complaint is that the print outs usually give the corrections to some decimal point. What the hell does that mean? Hold on a second so I can find 7/10 clicks. NF np1r1 doesn't work any better than the np2 for hold over, just for ranging. the np1rr for hold over works best. The marks are 4 moa ,8,15 and 20 which means that any adjustment to get in between is only around a 1/4 of the elevation dial on any shot. Some scopes (mk4) are in IPHY although advertized in moa, a big need to find out fast. Holdover plus a minor correction certainly has the advantage of moving the insides less, thus in theory, some advantage. Personally I have more of a problem with holdoff. Elevation and windage adjustment in moa, reticle in mil, and holding for a 30mph wind at 800 yds, How many mils is that? And just to make it funner how about a .5cm elevation with a 1000 z reticle in yards?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/12/2009 at 09:35
supertool73 View Drop Down
Optics Jedi Master
Optics Jedi Master
Avatar
Superstool

Joined: January/03/2008
Location: Utah
Status: Offline
Points: 9522
I have both systems and probably prefer the mil/mil as far as being easier.  The downside to the .1 mil is your adjustments are not as fine as with the 1/4 MOA.  Not to big of a deal, but sometimes you cannot get your shots dialed in as closely as the 1/4 MOA adjustments can.  Making windage adjustments if you miss is a breeze though, not much thinking involved at all. 

I agree it is hard to go back and forth between the two.  The hardest part for me is keeping my mind thinking in Mils instead of MOAs.  I have done MOAs for long enough that my mind does not want to break away from it.  But it is getting easier and in the end I think it will be a much easier system for me to use even though it is not quite as precise. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/12/2009 at 09:41
jonoMT View Drop Down
Optics Master Extraordinaire
Optics Master Extraordinaire
Avatar

Joined: November/13/2008
Location: Montana
Status: Offline
Points: 4613
There's also some good points on this topic made @ http://www.opticstalk.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=9427

Dale, I have also found it annoying that some ballistics calculators spit out un-rounded numbers. I have one that doesn't but when I've generated a drop table out of the other that I use, I end up taking it into Excel to round 1/4 MOA clicks.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/12/2009 at 09:45
Rancid Coolaid View Drop Down
Optics Jedi Master
Optics Jedi Master
Avatar

Joined: January/19/2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 7701
Originally posted by Dale Clifford Dale Clifford wrote:

NF np1r1 doesn't work any better than the np2 for hold over, just for ranging. the np1rr for hold over works best. The marks are 4 moa ,8,15 and 20 which means that any adjustment to get in between is only around a 1/4 of the elevation dial on any shot.


Actually, it's even better than that.  The dot is at 4 but the line ends at 3 and the next line begins at 5, so you actually have precise aiming points along the vertical at (in MOA at max setting): 3, 4,5, 7,8,9, 10,15,16,19,20,21, and 22.

I like NF reticles and used/owned the 1RR for several years.  It's very clean on top and relatively easy to adjust the circle to whatever size you need (so long as you calibrate it from a known distance and with a known target size.)
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/12/2009 at 10:52
Urimaginaryfrnd View Drop Down
MODERATOR
MODERATOR
Avatar
Resident Redneck

Joined: June/20/2005
Location: Iowa
Status: Offline
Points: 13877

 So circles represent  18 to 20 in what do lines represent?

The NP1-RR ranging scale works on the principle of known size of the target in inches. Targets are framed inside the circular elements of the reticle to quickly estimate the range of a target.

Examples:
• Deer average 18–20 inches from brisket to shoulder.
• Coyotes average 18–20 inches in height.
• Fox average 10–12 inches in height.
• Prairie dogs average 9–10 inches standing.

 NP-1RR-r090607_35NP-1RR: Varmint, Long-range 

Click to enlarge reticle

 



Edited by Urimaginaryfrnd - May/12/2009 at 11:05
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/12/2009 at 11:59
Rancid Coolaid View Drop Down
Optics Jedi Master
Optics Jedi Master
Avatar

Joined: January/19/2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 7701
The circle is actually 9 inches and the top of the circle to the line below is 18 inches.

I figured mine for 20 inches and made the mark on the power ring to know where 20 inches was.  With a little time, a known distance, and a target of specific height, you can calibrate the circle/line spacing to be almost anything greater than 18 inches.

I like the reticle, it is a bit busy at the bottom, but I am usually most concerned about what is happening on top, and on top this reticle is wide open.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/12/2009 at 16:04
Urimaginaryfrnd View Drop Down
MODERATOR
MODERATOR
Avatar
Resident Redneck

Joined: June/20/2005
Location: Iowa
Status: Offline
Points: 13877
I just got back from looking at the Nightforce scopes and I like the reticle but there are things about the scope that I really dont like.  First off it just drives me nuts that the whole back end of the scope turns to change the power. Naturally the Burris Extreme does too and boy does the glass suck on the Burris. The clicks knobs power ring glass the illumination  all look better to me on the Trijicon than the Nightforce.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/12/2009 at 17:32
Rancid Coolaid View Drop Down
Optics Jedi Master
Optics Jedi Master
Avatar

Joined: January/19/2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 7701
The clicks should settle in, the glass I think is a push, the turning objective does suck, and the illumination is tough to change on the fly, but DAMN if it ain't durable, dependable, and built to dish out whatever you throw at it.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/13/2009 at 08:39
Dale Clifford View Drop Down
Optics Jedi Knight
Optics Jedi Knight


Joined: July/04/2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 5087

I think the clicks on the NXS is spring loaded ball detent not piece of metal detent, and those big numbers are easy to read under most conditions.

 Post Reply Post Reply
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Similar Threads: "1/10 Mil clicks VS 1/4moa clicks"
Subject Author Forum Replies Last Post
Review of new SS10x42MQ (mil/mil fixed 10 power) dk-1 Member's Tests and Reviews 7
Scopes with 10+ mils per evolution tucansam Tactical Scopes 18
Weaver Classic Extreme (New) Click Values lifesfordeath Rifle Scopes 2
Repeatable Clicks cjd223 Rifle Scopes 16
Kahles Helia S2 elevation clicks Yotimbo Rifle Scopes 5
SS 10x42 Turret Clicks diamondd817 Tactical Scopes 14
IOR, clicks www.technika.nu Tactical Scopes 1
2-10 or 2.5-10: the low end louielouie General Hunting 7
burris xtreme click value?? dodgefreak8 Tactical Scopes 6
Leupold finger click dials - question bookworm Rifle Scopes 0


This page was generated in 0.188 seconds.